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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2012-07-25 18:43:12 UTC
Suicide ganker tears are just as amusing as suicide victim tears.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#162 - 2012-07-25 18:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: arcca jeth
Fuujin wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
A pr0 tanked hulk RIGHT NOW can reach 30-40k EHP even without dumb faction mods. After the buff, it's easily double that. The other ships are going to be even better. I am fitting a battle skiff as we speak.


you reap what you sow. Maybe Goons shot themselves in the foot here. And if they didn't, what are you doing here arguing with miners for then? You stomped around in the sandbox long enough and CCP recognized that GOONS do not make this game nor do they determine what CCP's development plans are. So they started to cater to the other players that have been screaming for these changes for years. And here Goons are complaining about it? It's about time the shoe was on the other foot and you don't like it. This is what happens when you **** in the wind, it sprays back into your face and some of it gets into your mouth. All of you should go find another game to try to wreck, so you can go stroke your e-peens a bit more on your lame forums.


This man appears to be mad.
So, so very angry.



Goon's appear to be mad, they are the only ones moaning about it. Everyone else who even occasionally mines is happy about it. The only people MAD about it are gankers. lol Next up should be more industry buffs. Looking forward to it myself.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#163 - 2012-07-25 18:45:07 UTC
I would just like to hear what CCP intends to do with the increased botting and AFK mining these new barges will no doubt create. Also, don't tell me it won't happen because the new EHP for some of barges is increasing to the amounts of cruiser and one will be as good as any BS. Park them in high-sec ice field and walk away for an hour or have your isboxer and G15 keyboard or third party app set for botting - no fear of gank because sitting in a .7 ice field pretty much garuantees 100% safety.
Caldari Acolyte
Shark Enterprises
#164 - 2012-07-25 18:45:55 UTC
Can't wait for the TEC nerf/ Ring mining thingy. The gourmet Goon/Griefer tears will be awesome, Im buying my pails ahead of time before there sold out P
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2012-07-25 18:46:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
theyre fully aware that their bounties are enough to fund ships to gank even a properly fit hulk so please don't give me the "fit your ships properly" line.


if our bounty was actually taken into account when they did this "balancing" i'm going to laffo irl

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2012-07-25 18:47:02 UTC
Caldari Acolyte wrote:
Can't wait for the TEC nerf/ Ring mining thingy. The gourmet Goon/Griefer tears will be awesome, Im buying my pails ahead of time before there sold out P


we've only asked for a tech nerf since 2009

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dave stark
#167 - 2012-07-25 18:47:17 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
theyre fully aware that their bounties are enough to fund ships to gank even a properly fit hulk so please don't give me the "fit your ships properly" line.


if our bounty was actually taken into account when they did this "balancing" i'm going to laffo irl


i think it has more to do with the fact a 5m ship is popping a 250m ship in a matter of seconds rather than the fact that you're bank rolling it.
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#168 - 2012-07-25 18:48:33 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

Not really protected since you can gank them. However if you really think it's a good game balance to be able to kill 300M ships (some times more) with a simple 3M T1 fitted destroyer, then this is an endless discussion with fake arguments.


Just going to address this terrible fallacy real quick.

A hulk should never die to a catalyst.

If you take your 220-250M ship, remove most of its armor/structure with expanders and rigs, don't even bother with a token tank, you might get killed by a very high skilled, all t2 fit catalyst. Which runs about 20M, not 3M.

Macks are a different story, but they are fairly easy to make immune to catalysts if you fit a tank. Untanked macks are much softer, however. They are also well under 200M in cost.


By your logic, a rifter shouldn't be able to kill a tornado. Cost is irrelevant.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2012-07-25 18:49:10 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
So you can't just pick a 3M ship and kill mining barges any more in a few days again, just take more ships and kill it.


a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Suqq Madiq
#170 - 2012-07-25 18:49:29 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:

Another myth. They're increasing EHP, not making the ships indestructible. You speak of "guaranteed surivival(sic)" as if there is some magical bubble of immunity surrounding ships in highsec resulting in no risk whatsoever. Undocking is always a risk, no matter what ship you're in.


A hulk, properly tanked NOW, can survive solo ganks. A mack can shrug off all but the highest firepower attacks.

With the buffs, they'll require multiple people to kill. The incentive to do so drops off precipitously when you need to spend 150M+ to kill a target. At no point did I claim it was an absolute impossibility to gank barges in hisec--but as a practical matter, it will become the pastime of the rich who don't care about sustainability.

But in any case, what's done is done (or will be done), so oh well. I just await your next round of plaintive cries and whines to CCP when "mining is too unprofitable" or "bots are all over!"

Edit: I will go so far as to say that the new skiffs will be nigh-ungankable in hisec. And they'll now mine as much as a covetor.


A properly tanked Hulk can now survive solo ganks from 10mil ISK Destroyers? This surprises you from a 300mil ISK Hulk? Should a 300mil ISK Hulk NOT be able to survive a solo gank from a 10mil ISK hull? I'll assume you're intelligent enough to answer with an emphatic no. In which case, at what point should the profit ratio for gankers be? Should they be able to gank a Hulk with 2 Destroyers or 20mil ISK in hulls? How about 10 Destroyers or 100mil ISK in hulls? Or, following your logic, it will require 15 Destroyers at 10mil ISK apiece to match the magical 150mil number you threw out as the point where "the incentive to do so (to gank a Hulk) drops off precipitously". Except it won't take anywhere near 15 Destroyers to gank any of the new Mining hulls, with the possible exception of the Skiff which has terrible yield to compensate for it's tank.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2012-07-25 18:51:50 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
A properly tanked Hulk can now survive solo ganks from 10mil ISK Destroyers? This surprises you from a 300mil ISK Hulk? Should a 300mil ISK Hulk NOT be able to survive a solo gank from a 10mil ISK hull? I'll assume you're intelligent enough to answer with an emphatic no. In which case, at what point should the profit ratio for gankers be? Should they be able to gank a Hulk with 2 Destroyers or 20mil ISK in hulls? How about 10 Destroyers or 100mil ISK in hulls? Or, following your logic, it will require 15 Destroyers at 10mil ISK apiece to match the magical 150mil number you threw out as the point where "the incentive to do so (to gank a Hulk) drops off precipitously". Except it won't take anywhere near 15 Destroyers to gank any of the new Mining hulls, with the possible exception of the Skiff which has terrible yield to compensate for it's tank.


a falcon can die to a frigate

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#172 - 2012-07-25 18:52:26 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
I would just like to hear what CCP intends to do with the increased botting and AFK mining these new barges will no doubt create. Also, don't tell me it won't happen because the new EHP for some of barges is increasing to the amounts of cruiser and one will be as good as any BS. Park them in high-sec ice field and walk away for an hour or have your isboxer and G15 keyboard or third party app set for botting - no fear of gank because sitting in a .7 ice field pretty much garuantees 100% safety.


I park a command centers on planets and make hundreds of millions in PI income. They are easier to get into and require less work to achieve than 5 research agents.
5 research agents = around 200M or so very six months
5 planets = around 200M every couple days

some one needs a bit more perspective here. Oh, and that's without POCO's with basic refined products. Roll Where are all the protestors for this topic?.......I don't see any.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#173 - 2012-07-25 18:53:12 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
So you can't just pick a 3M ship and kill mining barges any more in a few days again, just take more ships and kill it.


a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator


Don't use logic on the boards, their small minds can't handle it mate.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#174 - 2012-07-25 18:53:32 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
And that they should be.


and then it will be mission runners

and then it will be incursion runners

and then it will be dudes hauling their life's worth in a badger

and then it will be gullible dudes with 60b waiting to be scammed


The only things they can really do to make missioners and incursioners safer would be to remove concord and just not let you activate aggressive modules in the first place.

If freighters can be ganked so can the badger

And well all they can really do is provide more tools and warning for that guy with 60B....but in the end CCP is too laissez-faire to change those things.

CCP hasn't changed the mechanics or the "intended" gameplay here...they just made it a little easier/harder depending on your perspective. The small HP buffs that the hulk got is HARDLY the end of suicide ganking miners as we know it. and the skiff does provide a good role for mining in dangerous space.

I always loved the look and feel of that little skiff, I'm excited to see the future of null sec mining....everyone in tanked up procurors and skiffs doing ninja ops to help build the next titan :P

The Drake is a Lie
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#175 - 2012-07-25 18:53:41 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
I would just like to hear what CCP intends to do with the increased botting and AFK mining these new barges will no doubt create. Also, don't tell me it won't happen because the new EHP for some of barges is increasing to the amounts of cruiser and one will be as good as any BS. Park them in high-sec ice field and walk away for an hour or have your isboxer and G15 keyboard or third party app set for botting - no fear of gank because sitting in a .7 ice field pretty much garuantees 100% safety.



There will be less than you people pretend this buff will bring, remember that Shreegs didn't got those bots banned with farts or thanks to all gaking but because he did he's job.
Are you clearly stating because of mining barges buff he's now unable to do it???

C'mon, 10YO little kids might believe all this fake propaganda and support ganker tears because it's nothing else but that.

AGAIN, no those miners are not safe, pick a couple of friends and go gank them like you did before to keep the belt all for you.
Ho wait you're crying because now it will require you to put some effort??

C'mon...

brb
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#176 - 2012-07-25 18:53:41 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
So you can't just pick a 3M ship and kill mining barges any more in a few days again, just take more ships and kill it.


a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator


paralyze but not POP
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2012-07-25 18:54:03 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:


A properly tanked Hulk can now survive solo ganks from 10mil ISK Destroyers? This surprises you from a 300mil ISK Hulk? Should a 300mil ISK Hulk NOT be able to survive a solo gank from a 10mil ISK hull? I'll assume you're intelligent enough to answer with an emphatic no. In which case, at what point should the profit ratio for gankers be? Should they be able to gank a Hulk with 2 Destroyers or 20mil ISK in hulls? How about 10 Destroyers or 100mil ISK in hulls? Or, following your logic, it will require 15 Destroyers at 10mil ISK apiece to match the magical 150mil number you threw out as the point where "the incentive to do so (to gank a Hulk) drops off precipitously". Except it won't take anywhere near 15 Destroyers to gank any of the new Mining hulls, with the possible exception of the Skiff which has terrible yield to compensate for it's tank.


Hi, we use brutixes and tier3 BCs as well, which cost 50-70M depending on fitting. While you CAN scale up with destroyers, the level of coordination required to avoid getting concord on grid prematurely scales precipitously (And once it is, you need a LOT of destroyers since you need to alpha the target).

You guys and your myopic focus on destroyers is humorous, but ultimately counterproductive to serious conversation.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2012-07-25 18:54:31 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
I always loved the look and feel of that little skiff, I'm excited to see the future of null sec mining....everyone in tanked up procurors and skiffs doing ninja ops to help build the next titan :P


nobody tanks mining ships in nullsec because the prevailing mindset there is "if you get in a situation where a tank matters you're dead anyway"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#179 - 2012-07-25 18:55:58 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
So you can't just pick a 3M ship and kill mining barges any more in a few days again, just take more ships and kill it.


a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator



Yep and also 75M Drakes can kill full fleets of Lokis Lol I'm quite aware of that too.

Let me just reiterate my suggestion: start massively and continuously ganking missioners and haulers, so they might get the well deserved buffs faster thanks to you Blink

brb
Dave stark
#180 - 2012-07-25 18:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Richard Desturned wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
I always loved the look and feel of that little skiff, I'm excited to see the future of null sec mining....everyone in tanked up procurors and skiffs doing ninja ops to help build the next titan :P


nobody tanks mining ships in nullsec because the prevailing mindset there is "if you get in a situation where a tank matters you're dead anyway"


ah but that's not so true in a skiff with it's +2 warp stab bonus (which i think is still there on sisi... infact i should go and check that)

edit: oh no, the bonus has gone :( sad times.