Market Discussions

Based on the input costs to make crysalline carbonide, why is the end product's price so low?

On the day of the cobalt rise the price went from 100isk per unit up to 300 isk from someone buying up all the supply. I managed to get an amount for around 140isk but it has now dropped down again to pre-dev-blog prices.

It requires 100 hydrocarbons, 100 silicates, 100 cobalt and 100 cadmium to produce 20k Crystalline carbonide.

As the input costs of of the materials has increased by at least 400% and the others 2 have also risen shouldn't we be seeing a bigger rise in the cost of the end product?

Is this just a delay caused by people making it and selling it at the old prices rather than dumping their stock of inputs, or have i missed something?

agreed, but why manufacture crystalline carbonide when you can just dump the inputs at a 600-400% profit from what you bought them?

If the prices of cobalt hold up until the new patch, i don't see why the prices of crystalline carbonide wouldn't go up more

As it stands, going off buy prices:

Hydrocarbons 117 (buy) = 20% rise

Cobalt 2k isk (buy) = 400% rise

Silicates 500 isk (buy) = 30% rise

Cadmium 2k isk (buy) = 80% rise

Even if cobalt settles around 1k isk .. that is still around 50% rise in inputs averaged.

If we look at the direct inputs for crystalline carbonide, we have:

Carbon polymers: 1.5k isk (buy) = 65% rise

and

Crystallite alloy at 2.9k (sell - the buys haven't caught up yet) = 70% rise

That is just going off buy orders and the crystallite alloy hasn't had a sell order filled in 3 days so the buy price is mis-leading.

I don't see how crystallite Carbonide will not rise in price by at least 50% even with conservative estimates over the next few weeks.

People with stock bought or manufactured using a lot cheaper materials. People incapable of doing math. Probably a bit of both.

I would also imagine most who react low end stuff like Crystalline Carbonide do so using their own moon miners and hey, if you mine it it is free, right? In all seriousness, there is usually a lag of a few days before people adjust their operations; if it is suddenly more profitable to just sell the raws out of the moon miners, it still takes :effort: to readjust the reaction towers and all that...

Personally if I were reacting Crystalline Carbonide right now, I'd just stockpile it as the market is currently very choppy. I also wouldn't buy more raw materials at current price for it. As this is the logical thing to do, expect prices to change eventually.

(Also Crystalline Carbonide was dragged back down by a bunch of flippers who bought a ton at sub-100ISK and once they saw that the initial spike up wasn't sustainable, they just seek to flip off whatever they are holding at a profit compared to the price they bought it at... usual price volatility caused by market speculators who really couldn't care one bit what it cost to build something - all they care is the price they paid for it and the price they can get for it right now so they can reinvest the ISK to the next item they seek to flip at a profit)

Well, I suppose that's one way to entertain yourself while mining.

A little, nothing that really hurts. i got about 18m units at 140 isk on impulse. it's down to 110 isk or so, so i will have lost maybe 550m isk if i sold today. Not a great amount, but still i was obviously hoping to make some profit. I'm gonna hold on to it and see where it goes as i can't imagine it going down much even if the inputs return to pre-blog rates.

Just generally curious as to what the opinion is of those who no more than me.

I'm not really a market player, but do dabble in speculation occasionally, i've made more than i've lost overall so i'm happy.

Edit - it looks like it is bouncing up a little atm, so i am still optimistic of making a small profit within the next couple of weeks.

nobody buys cobalt, it is far too common to bother. just stick the tower using it on a cobalt moon and swap the silo for a harvester

cool, i only wish i had held off my initial buy and picked some up for 110isk p/u

I saw that the market was cleared of it so i went to buy the armour plates and reprocessed them. I inadvertently bumped the price of armour plates from 7.5k to 8.5-9k for a couple of days in the process.

I really should have thought a little more carefully before doing it, but it was late, the new Dev blog had been out about 2hrs and i wanted to act (relatively) quickly.

Assuming the reaction is being done in 0.0, you also need to remember there is a huge lag in transport time.

Generally the moon goo we send to 0.0 is from the prior 1-1.5 months.

Right now, theoretically, yes, I'm not sure it makes sense to still make it. But if you aren't buying the cobalt, does it matter? Long term yes, short term no. My guess is that in 1-1.5 months when the next batch moves down, either cobalt will be down (so we'd be screwed if we stopped, and just start mining cobalt to sell) - or the price will have risen.