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Plex for Security Status
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Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2012-07-23 19:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mane Frehm
Security status matters.

And for those of us who like to engage in PvP or other interesting activities outside of nullsec or wormholes, we have two choices:
a) Allow your security status to keep falling until it hits -10 and it can go no lower.
b) Rat. Rat a lot. Rat until your eyes bleed. Then rat some more.

Although there has been some mention of a change to the security status mechanism to allow sec status recovery in return for tags, I've seen little progress on this issue. So I'd like to propose that we be allowed to improve our security status via the use of Plex (catchy name - Plex for Secs). I know that I would cheerfully use this ISK sink to reduce the amount of time I spend ratting, and I suspect there are many who would use this proposed mechanism rather than having to put in the many hours of ratting that are currently required.

CCP - over to you

PS - I have PLEX ready NOW!
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-07-23 20:52:27 UTC
Breaking news: shooting people has consequences!

Seriously though, sec status loss is an intentional consequence of shooting at other players. Either go ratting for a little bit and grind standings (not really that hard or time consuming if you do it right) or suck it up and deal with the status loss.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-07-23 21:16:13 UTC
Sigh.

You are wrong; it is very time consuming. You need to kill 12 to 15 BS rats to cover off 1 lo-sec kill. So I don't know how much ratting you've done, but I can tell you that if you engage in regular lo-sec PvP, keeping your sec status up cannot be done by "...ratting for a little bit".
Glitch Online
License To Steal
#4 - 2012-07-24 00:03:46 UTC
Bad Idea in my opinion.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-24 06:42:37 UTC
Mane Frehm wrote:
Sigh.

You are wrong; it is very time consuming. You need to kill 12 to 15 BS rats to cover off 1 lo-sec kill. So I don't know how much ratting you've done, but I can tell you that if you engage in regular lo-sec PvP, keeping your sec status up cannot be done by "...ratting for a little bit".


So by your math, I would need to kill...lets make it an even 15 BS rats to increase sec status by 1. It takes me 2-4 minutes to find a BS rat in a system and kill it, lets just round to 3 min. Thats 45 minutes, multiplied by 10, so around 7 1/2 hours to grind up to 0 sec status. Not bad actually, I thought it would take longer.

But to be honest when your out on solo or small roams make it a point to splash a BS rat in a belt every few systems or every system. That way you are increasing your sec status and decreasing it at the same time. When you have off time just roam a loop in your area and kill rats while looking for victims. It's really not that hard if you intigrate it with your other activities.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#6 - 2012-07-24 10:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
The loss of security status is the only real loss you have, when fight other players in High sec. I suggest that you calculate to loose your ship, before you attack someone, while the victim did not calculate the ship loose.

But be honest, when you run around in RL and randomly beat up some old lady, you can´t assume that this have no negativ consequences for yourself. Be happy that in EVE for harming other players, you only have to rat a few boring hours. And your victim still would like more punishment for you.

Maybe there could be a function that you pay a compensation to your victim, set by the victim and taxed by concord, so that you should be able to nullify the security loose, but nothing like this pay2win-like-idea with "plex for sec"

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-07-24 15:26:10 UTC
Griffin Omanid wrote:
Maybe there could be a function that you pay a compensation to your victim, set by the victim and taxed by concord, so that you should be able to nullify the security loose, but nothing like this pay2win-like-idea with "plex for sec"


Ooh, I like this idea. "I will accept your humble apology for shooting me and remove the security penalty for a mere 100M ISK".

And, to the OP, Gerrick Palivorn ran the numbers for you (using pessimistic numbers at that). It's really not that bad trying to rat sec status back up. And with his idea about popping a rat as you pass through systems, you might actually gain sec status through the roam if you do that (atleast, if your roams are anywhere near as 'target rich' as some of mine have been).
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-07-24 15:38:09 UTC
I'm pretty sure CCP already announced that they were going to change the system, and make it so you can buy security status by trading in tags. I'm too lazy to find where they said that, so I'm going to assert it without proof.
Dusenman
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#9 - 2012-07-24 15:56:59 UTC
I like the idea, simply because it cost money, whether isk or $$ to get the plex. While at this moment I am not sure what the cost of plex is, it isn't cheap. Also while you rat you make isk, you gain something while you grind your sec status. That is a win-win for time lost. If you had to pay for it, you are a win-lose. You gain sec status but lose isk or $$.

If it where tags as "Gudrun Ellecon" has stated then it is till a win-lose but not at such a scale. (I would assume.) Tags can be costly...

GM Homonoia: In other words; feel free to use the tactic, but don't be an utter and total ***.

CCP Tallest_: _And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-07-24 17:02:53 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
Mane Frehm wrote:
Sigh.

You are wrong; it is very time consuming. You need to kill 12 to 15 BS rats to cover off 1 lo-sec kill. So I don't know how much ratting you've done, but I can tell you that if you engage in regular lo-sec PvP, keeping your sec status up cannot be done by "...ratting for a little bit".


So by your math, I would need to kill...lets make it an even 15 BS rats to increase sec status by 1. It takes me 2-4 minutes to find a BS rat in a system and kill it, lets just round to 3 min. Thats 45 minutes, multiplied by 10, so around 7 1/2 hours to grind up to 0 sec status. Not bad actually, I thought it would take longer.

But to be honest when your out on solo or small roams make it a point to splash a BS rat in a belt every few systems or every system. That way you are increasing your sec status and decreasing it at the same time. When you have off time just roam a loop in your area and kill rats while looking for victims. It's really not that hard if you intigrate it with your other activities.


I think you misunderstood my statement; it is 12 to 15 BS rats for 1 lo-sec kill, not 1 point of sec status. A full point of sec status will take 40+ BS kills, depending on the quality of the BS and on your level of the Fast Talk skill (a rank 4 skill btw). Also remember that you are limited to 1 sec status increase per system every 15 minutes, so you need to find a 5 or 6 system high quality loop to maximize your sec status gain.

It is a massive time sink; I'd rather it was an ISK sink.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#11 - 2012-07-24 17:35:12 UTC
Those of us that live in low sec, actually like the -10 badge. But I digress.

Paying for better sec status with Plexes is a no no. If you don't want to do the time, then don't do the crime. Simples.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-07-25 06:19:33 UTC
Mane Frehm wrote:
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
Mane Frehm wrote:
Sigh.

You are wrong; it is very time consuming. You need to kill 12 to 15 BS rats to cover off 1 lo-sec kill. So I don't know how much ratting you've done, but I can tell you that if you engage in regular lo-sec PvP, keeping your sec status up cannot be done by "...ratting for a little bit".


So by your math, I would need to kill...lets make it an even 15 BS rats to increase sec status by 1. It takes me 2-4 minutes to find a BS rat in a system and kill it, lets just round to 3 min. Thats 45 minutes, multiplied by 10, so around 7 1/2 hours to grind up to 0 sec status. Not bad actually, I thought it would take longer.

But to be honest when your out on solo or small roams make it a point to splash a BS rat in a belt every few systems or every system. That way you are increasing your sec status and decreasing it at the same time. When you have off time just roam a loop in your area and kill rats while looking for victims. It's really not that hard if you intigrate it with your other activities.


I think you misunderstood my statement; it is 12 to 15 BS rats for 1 lo-sec kill, not 1 point of sec status. A full point of sec status will take 40+ BS kills, depending on the quality of the BS and on your level of the Fast Talk skill (a rank 4 skill btw). Also remember that you are limited to 1 sec status increase per system every 15 minutes, so you need to find a 5 or 6 system high quality loop to maximize your sec status gain.

It is a massive time sink; I'd rather it was an ISK sink.


Whether it's 15 rats or 40 it makes no difference, if you rat as you splat you essentially nullify the security loss. I know many groups that maintain a higher than -5.0 sec rating and still have a high number of kills per month. It's all about how you mitigate the loss not asking for a magic button to get rid of something that your to lazy to fix yourself. CCP has already given you a way to increase your sec rating; you need to learn how to optimize it.

Adapt and overcome, you cannot always control your environment; but you can control how you use it.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#13 - 2012-07-25 06:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: StoneCold
Please don´t start with such ideas. In general it´s trading RL Money for ingame stats.

I´m looking into my magic 8-ball and it tells me:

People will start to ask to pay everyhting with plex.
small list of examples:

"PPL can upgrade their security status with plex, why cant i buy faction standing?"
"Can i pay 100 PLEX to win eve?"
"Hey i need X and i give you Y PLEX for it".

We´re allready paying a monthly fee.

And just because you don´t like the rules of a game doesn´t mean the rules are bad (you as NOT the PO, but in general).

My true stories
Tex' Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-07-25 14:57:19 UTC
Very bad idea,

I say NO NO and NO to this pay to win idea.

If you want to do crimes then you have to know the consequences, thats just how it is.

For example; Ppl cannot just keep suicide gaking then simply buy back their standings.

Even the idea to get sec status for isk is ridiculous. You could just buy plex , sell them and buy sec stat.

BAD IDEA.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#15 - 2012-07-25 15:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
Tex' Winchester wrote:


Even the idea to get sec status for isk is ridiculous. You could just buy plex , sell them and buy sec stat.

BAD IDEA.


If this answer go to my proposal. The payment would be more like a compensation.
Ok, in most case it would be something like: "Damn, my 400 mill Hulk was ganked. At least i want back 100 mill indemnity so that i at least got anything." Because of that maybe the minimal indemnity should be the estimated total price on the killmail.

But you right, I totally disagree with the idea of the OP, my proposal was just a diplomatic optimization of his idea.

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
Khoda Khan
Vatlaa Corporation
#16 - 2012-07-25 19:43:36 UTC
Big no. Even though if an idea like this were implemented I'd probably be one of the first to jump on it.

I quit playing about a year and a half ago aside from logging in to swap skills because I can't be bothered to fix my sec status through ratting. It is mind numbingly boring and I'd rather just let this character languish in skill training than take part in some boring PVE play.

Now if we could regain sec status based on the value of kills made against other -5 or below players, I wouldn't mind that a bit. I'd be much more inclined to return to playing this particular character if I could spend a month or two hunting -5 or below players than spending a day or two killing rats to fix my -7.50 sec status. Sec status gains this way would have to be slow, more time consuming than ratting, based on ship/pod values with adjustments for sec status differences between killer/killed in order to mitigate abuse of the system.

No to buying sec status to plex even if I'd love to do it myself. No to trading tags for sec status, as tags are PVE sourced. And even no to continuing to have NPCs provide any kind of security gain whatsover. Sec loss is a PVP only fuction, and thus sec gain, it's opposite, should be a PVP only function. Then we'll also see some *real* consequences fr those decisions we make.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-26 03:58:53 UTC
Khoda Khan wrote:
No to buying sec status to plex even if I'd love to do it myself. No to trading tags for sec status, as tags are PVE sourced. And even no to continuing to have NPCs provide any kind of security gain whatsover. Sec loss is a PVP only fuction, and thus sec gain, it's opposite, should be a PVP only function. Then we'll also see some *real* consequences fr those decisions we make.


Really like this idea. It would go wonderfully with the fix to the bounty system.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Ashara Milan
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-07-26 06:39:21 UTC
I like this idea, but really there's not much difference between "plex for sec" and "plex for 500M worth of tags".

I think you should be able to get sec status by buying and trading in some kind of player created-good. We need more sinks for PI goods, so why not "sec for mechanical parts" or something silly like that.