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Many dead in shooting at Batman premier in Denver...
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#181 - 2012-07-24 13:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
TotalCareBear wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

And you sitll hide from us the truth about your experiences outside of the US and why you pretend to characteise the world through them.


OMG the butthurt is strong with this one...

Dude... read the thread again. My point is that when you restrict civilian gun ownership, crime rises because criminals know you don't have guns. I've lived on places with many gun restrictions and this is usually the end result. If you want to have a discussion about it, feel free to list countries, along with their gun laws and their crime rates.



Your point clashes against the reality of almost every european country.

Let's look at my own country vs the USA, 2010:

Intentional murder per 100,000, USA: 4.8
Intentional murder per 100,000, Spain: 0.72

In Spain it's almost impossible to obtain a license to own a short arm for self-defense unless you're a part of security forces, the military, or work in certain professions (jewellers, FAI). Also the privilege that policemen and military have in that regard it's because they've been targeted by a terrorist band for some 40 years, so the law was modified to allow them to have one personal weapon at their home, plus a right to carry their issued weapon when not on duty.

The consequences of self-defense weapons being so strictly limited are funny; I think that the last time a policeman was killed on duty was in 2010 (it happens each few years in my country, with a population of 44 million).

Murder rate is so low that the mortal stabbing of a teenager makes national headlines (just happend this last weekend). Likely will be a few months until another such crime makes to the news.

So, you see: Spanish citizens are esentially barred to owe short firearms of any kind and very specifically for self-defense, and yet intentional murder is quite below USA's index. How could that be?


Cherry picking data to make a point is really really dishonest.

There is little to no correlation(it might even be slightly negative) between guns per capita and murder rate.

Good examples of lots of guns and low crime: Switzerland, Canada, Scandinavia

Good examples of few guns, but lots of crime: Russia, Brazil, Most of the third world.

Now, even if you look inside EU and exclude former Eastern block members with low guns and high crime - you will see that many countries have something like 4-5x as many guns per capita as Spain, but similar murder rates.

Please, never use that argument, is it really dishonest to pick 1 or 2 EU countries and compare them to USA. Not to mention, USA local gun restrictions haven't really created low crime areas.


The one who claimed that few guns = high crime it's Shameless Avenger, not me. i am merely pointing him exaclty the same as you: no direct correlation between homicide and firearms.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#182 - 2012-07-24 13:38:45 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... you American ...


What's an American? Serious question.


American don't exist, it's just a convenient namesake to use for debating when some American goes and murders en masse other American.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#183 - 2012-07-24 13:40:56 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense. <----ASSUMPTION

Self defense from what threat?

Any. <----ASSUMPTION on the prior ASSUMPTION

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms. <----ASSUMPTION on the prior ASSUMPTION of the prior ASSUMPTION

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet. <---- Assumption^4

...keeps on going till ASSUMPTION^(n+1)


You ASS-U-ME too much.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#184 - 2012-07-24 13:50:53 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

The one who claimed that few guns = high crime it's Shameless Avenger, not me. i am merely pointing him exaclty the same as you: no direct correlation between homicide and firearms.


Don't change your position now. You have stated multiple times that your opinion is "more guns = more crime". Like having less guns kept you from getting your own share of weirdos:

- Manuel Delgado Villegas, known as "The Arropiero".
- Jose Antonio Rodriguez Vega, "The Mataviejas"
- Alfredo Galan, popularly known as "The Murderer of the Deck"
- Francisco García , "The Beggar Murderer"



"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#185 - 2012-07-24 14:08:28 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense.

Self defense from what threat?

Any.

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms.

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet.

So the reason why you need a weapon it's the American like you, who owe firearms because American like you owe guns.

Oh, you may say, "but, i am NOT a threat!" But then in your own words, "you don't know who will greet ya". And you are everybody else's "who will greet me?". So you are armed because of their arms, and they are armed because of your arms.

So all in all, American arm themselves because of armed American. And the more American arm themselves, the more American will have to worry about all those armed out there, thus they will keep arming themselves.



You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#186 - 2012-07-24 14:14:56 UTC
Oh wow the movie is ace.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#187 - 2012-07-24 14:30:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Oh wow the movie is ace.



My buddy was telling me it was a bit predictable. I might go see it tomorrow depending on how funds look.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#188 - 2012-07-24 14:52:37 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:



My buddy was telling me it was a bit predictable. I might go see it tomorrow depending on how funds look.


Its worth seeing just for Bane.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2012-07-24 15:39:46 UTC
I will go see it tomorrow, but first a trip to the surplus store for a kevlar vest Cool

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#190 - 2012-07-24 15:40:30 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I will go see it tomorrow, but first a trip to the surplus store for a kevlar vest Cool



hmm I like that. Was gonna do sandbags myself.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2012-07-24 15:41:34 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I will go see it tomorrow, but first a trip to the surplus store for a kevlar vest Cool



hmm I like that. Was gonna do sandbags myself.


I don't think the theater would appreciate the making of a bunker

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#192 - 2012-07-24 16:08:35 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I will go see it tomorrow, but first a trip to the surplus store for a kevlar vest Cool



hmm I like that. Was gonna do sandbags myself.


I don't think the theater would appreciate the making of a bunker



I'd leave the isle clear

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2012-07-24 17:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Micheal Dietrich wrote:



I'd leave the isle clear


If you can get a VIP box then it should be okBlink

Edit: and don't forget a tin hat, it not a real bunker unless you have a tin hat.
Jim Era
#194 - 2012-07-24 18:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Era
QQ

Wat™
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#195 - 2012-07-24 19:00:07 UTC
Well well well Golden boy here was on a federal grant


Because I now have to worry about more gun laws because of this case, I want everybody on a grant or student loan to have their finances micromanaged because of this case.

Never know what some of these miscreants might be buying.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#196 - 2012-07-24 19:47:43 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

The one who claimed that few guns = high crime it's Shameless Avenger, not me. i am merely pointing him exaclty the same as you: no direct correlation between homicide and firearms.


Don't change your position now. You have stated multiple times that your opinion is "more guns = more crime". Like having less guns kept you from getting your own share of weirdos:

- Manuel Delgado Villegas, known as "The Arropiero".
- Jose Antonio Rodriguez Vega, "The Mataviejas"
- Alfredo Galan, popularly known as "The Murderer of the Deck"
- Francisco García , "The Beggar Murderer"



Those are serial killers. And only Alfredo Galan used a gun, which he owed as a former military.

If you dig deep enough, you may find out that we also get people who goes in killing sprees. Just a couple years ago, a guy who held a grudge on his employers and local bank office murdered 4 (his two bosses and two employees of he bank) with a hunting .22. He was a total crackpot that each now and then would walk the streets of his town dresssed like a sheriff from a western movie, and although some people knew that he had been a hunter, nobody figured that he still had a license and a rifle... which kinda makes wonder what kind of control suppose those licenses.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#197 - 2012-07-24 19:50:37 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense.

Self defense from what threat?

Any.

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms.

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet.

So the reason why you need a weapon it's the American like you, who owe firearms because American like you owe guns.

Oh, you may say, "but, i am NOT a threat!" But then in your own words, "you don't know who will greet ya". And you are everybody else's "who will greet me?". So you are armed because of their arms, and they are armed because of your arms.

So all in all, American arm themselves because of armed American. And the more American arm themselves, the more American will have to worry about all those armed out there, thus they will keep arming themselves.



You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


The whole point being that weapons for self defense trigger the need to defend from weapons just flew over your head, right?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#198 - 2012-07-24 19:52:15 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well well well Golden boy here was on a federal grant


Because I now have to worry about more gun laws because of this case, I want everybody on a grant or student loan to have their finances micromanaged because of this case.

Never know what some of these miscreants might be buying.



So they paid his tuition *and* gave him 26k for whatevah? Man some people are lucky. The rest of us have to work part time selling cheap electronics and/or get student loans which we will be paying back until hell freezes over. Please tell me more... tell me he also had unemployment, welfare, food stamps... ugh... and don't forget student discounts. And I bet he's also gonna write a book from whiting the prison walls and make some more dough.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#199 - 2012-07-24 19:58:03 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Micheal Dietrich wrote:

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

...stuff...

You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.

The whole point being that weapons for self defense trigger the need to defend from weapons just flew over your head, right?


Oh no, your point is clear... whats not clear is where are the references for the data you used to support your point.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#200 - 2012-07-24 20:05:14 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well well well Golden boy here was on a federal grant


Because I now have to worry about more gun laws because of this case, I want everybody on a grant or student loan to have their finances micromanaged because of this case.

Never know what some of these miscreants might be buying.




Oh I think I know