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Eve Online does not evolve quickly enough

Author
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#21 - 2012-07-24 05:47:32 UTC
Exponential increase in innovation only really happens when you put in exponential amount of resources, and the cost of pushing the boundaries becomes increasingly difficult and costly.

E.g. discovering the electron particle required a laptop-sized device, while discovering the/a Higgs Boson required a rather laptop-unfriendly device.

Nyan

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#22 - 2012-07-24 06:14:18 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Disclaimer: this is a drunk post.

The arms race. We've had one in recent history, the past (20th) century demonstrating the rapid and aggressive adaptability of technology. Technology is a funny beast. It grows faster and faster. An exponential level of advancement. Arguably this is a continuing effect.

World War I: Infantry waves, trench warfare, brutal artillery. Stalemate-breaker: Tanks.

World War II: Blitzkrieg warfare, tanks, aircraft and carriers. Stalemate-breaker: The atomic bomb.

You see what I'm getting at, don't you?

We've been using the same goddamn weapons since the alpha/beta, bar a few exceptions like doomsday weapons. But there has been no arms race. Sure, the ships gradually and laboriously slowly get better... when Eve started, we had T1... a few years later, T2... and a few years after that, T3...

But they're still using the same damn guns. The same old, stagnant weapons we started with. They may get a % bonus to damage or RoF that's greater than lower-class ships of the line, but they're still using... the same weapons.

No scientist in New Eden appears to be working on NEW WEAPONS.

Here's what I'd like to see:

The Amarr Empire, after decades of technological collaboration with the Caldari State, discovers a method of projecting a particle free vacuum-beam through which an anti-matter beam can be channeled without the risk of anti-matter encountering matter until it hits the target. These weapons produce intense blast and kinetic effects upon impact.

The Caldari, employing exotic particle research involved in the creation of Amarr tachyon beams, invent a new tachyon-shielded warhead that slips through space instantly and arrives on target the second it is fired.

The Gallente, who strategically prefer defense over attack, combine high-explosive knowledge from the Minmatar Republic with their own drones, to create deployable self-regenerating minefields filled with seeking bomb-drones that function like a warp-bubble that hurts.

The Minmatar, thanks to their close relations with the fading Jovian empire, have secured exotic matter warhead technology never before seen among the four empires. These warheads are often unreliable, but when they function correctly, are devastating; capable of converting an Apocalypse battleship into a burning ball of exotic matter with a few solid strikes.

And here's the most important bit: this shit shouldn't be fair. Every few months, there should be a new breakthrough. A new weapon, just invented, that gives one empire an edge over the others... just long enough for the next counter-weapon to be developed.

tl;dr: New ships are nice. We want new weapons too. ("Like" this post if you agree, or post insults if you don't.)


How about we like the post *AND* post insults? :D

Seriously though, I like where your head is.

I dunno if you've taken a look yet, but you might be interested in reading about an idea of mine. Check out the link in my sig- "Intelligence shouldn't be free". You might like it.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-07-24 06:14:45 UTC
OP you should get drunk more often.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#24 - 2012-07-24 06:22:12 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
FugginNutz wrote:
I love this man....no homo.

Like 60% of the fun gone right there.


69.. percent

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Lyskal Oskold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-07-24 06:24:58 UTC
Maybe we should try using a thunderstone?

"Love is just a chemical, no matter the origin. We give it meaning by choice." - Eleanor Lamb

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#26 - 2012-07-24 06:28:11 UTC
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#27 - 2012-07-24 06:31:53 UTC
When I get drunk I just fall down a lot. I would much prefer your kind of drunk. And on topic, those are some pretty good ideas for weaponry you've come up with and maybe if you refine it some more and submit it to CCP you might see them turn up at some point.

The only thing I would say is that expecting changes on such a scale every few months is impractical, perhaps once a year might be possible though Big smile

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-07-24 09:08:01 UTC
I read the first line and instantly agreed with everything that possibly followed.

Occasionally plays sober

Hawelt
Warpspeed Shipping Inc.
#29 - 2012-07-24 09:12:56 UTC
So you want power creep just like WoW has ?
Where a pretty good item would feature a +10ish attribute bonus on launch day and a few years later you'd end up with +1000 ?

http://extra-credits.net/episodes/power-creep/


I'd prefer new weapony to fullfill additional roles. There would still be the usual FOTM meta dynamic inbetween patch days.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2012-07-24 09:36:47 UTC
Meson cannons.

That is all.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#31 - 2012-07-24 09:44:26 UTC
I, too, want to render 90% of Eve's ships and weapons obsolete and worthless. That sounds like a really good idea.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#32 - 2012-07-24 17:45:41 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
I, too, want to render 90% of Eve's ships and weapons obsolete and worthless. That sounds like a really good idea.


Never said "render obsolete" - merely that maybe, just maybe we should get some new types of weapons to play with, that open up different options.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#33 - 2012-07-24 18:02:00 UTC
In the beginning, CCP made the Doomsday and bestowed upon it a mighty AOE. They looked, and behold the Doomsday was OP. Thus CCP did nerf the Doomsday's AOE. But the players cried out "Doomsdays are still OP!" Thus CCP did nerf the Doomsday a second time, that it might only be used to rend capital ships. And they looked and saw that it was good. Sort of. Maybe.

In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.

It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-07-24 18:07:16 UTC
This!
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#35 - 2012-07-24 18:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.

It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning.


These are not superweapons. Nor am I suggesting they should be. They should merely be new options - roughly as effective as present weapons, but with new and never-before seen capabilities that force the community to adapt rapidly, rather than stagnate with the same tired old options we've had since day one.

Look at the weapons we started Eve with. Beams, pulses. Arty, ACs. Rails, blasters. Missiles.

Look at the weapons we've gained since then. Bombs. Doomsday. Up-scaled capital versions of the same crap we had before. Sentry drones are somewhat new too, I guess. It's like no-one is trying to invent new methods of killing each other - highly unlikely for a game full of creative humans. Why haven't the Amarr, in the decade of arms development that came prior, not addressed their EM/TH dependence with an alternate weapon system that does explosive/kinetic? You'd think their scientists would have come up with a solution to this glaring tactical hole that didn't involve using Valkyries or a launcher with exp missiles, wouldn't you?
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-07-24 18:14:44 UTC
I don't agree with OP, i think EVE itself is a constant arms race. An arms race between nullsec powers and highsec powers alike.

Evolving technology is another thing.

And the game is less than 10 years old. Even by real world terms, things evolve fast but not THAT fast..

FC, what do?

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#37 - 2012-07-24 18:26:20 UTC
10 years...

In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#38 - 2012-07-24 18:27:14 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
In short, superweapons have been done before. They got spammed and CCP was forced to nerf them. The same would happen with the OP's suggestion: FOTM fleets using whatever is the most powerful until CCP escalates to a new one or nerfs the existing one back into balance.

It is a BAD THING to create an environment where there is only one course to winning.


These are not superweapons. Nor am I suggesting they should be. They should merely be new options - roughly as effective as present weapons, but with new and never-before seen capabilities that force the community to adapt rapidly, rather than stagnate with the same tired old options we've had since day one.


What you wrote:

Quote:
capable of converting an Apocalypse battleship into a burning ball of exotic matter with a few solid strikes.


That's a superweapon. A single ship able to melt a battleship in "a few" shots is VASTLY superior to anything on the field today.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Look at the weapons we started Eve with. Beams, pulses. Arty, ACs. Rails, blasters. Missiles.

Look at the weapons we've gained since then. Bombs. Doomsday. Up-scaled capital versions of the same crap we had before. Sentry drones are somewhat new too, I guess. It's like no-one is trying to invent new methods of killing each other - highly unlikely for a game full of creative humans. Why haven't the Amarr, in the decade of arms development that came prior, not addressed their EM/TH dependence with an alternate weapon system that does explosive/kinetic? You'd think their scientists would have come up with a solution to this glaring tactical hole that didn't involve using Valkyries or a launcher with exp missiles, wouldn't you?


A lot of people over the years have clamored for varied laser damage profiles. I can't even guess what that would do to balance. Besides that, adding a specific laser turret that does a specific damage type doesn't address the "problem" you're going after, because you can't switch on the fly if you encounter enemies highly resistant to your guns. You still have the same problem of carrying a single damage profile.

Besides that, you are not FORCED to continue flying amarr ships or using lasers. The vengeance, sacrilege, and damnation are all fine missile ships. Amarr fitting skills apply well to gallente, requiring just ship and turret skills to make the switch. There are plenty of ways to get out from under the EM/therm profile that is apparently a core part of the balancing philosophy for the Amarr.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#39 - 2012-07-24 18:29:54 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
10 years...

In World War II, designs went from blueprint to build within a span of months, not years.


Nobody was concerned about balance in WW2.

This is game, guys. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, not hand out overpowered weapons every few months that will ruin the game for all those not using them. I really wish people would stop trying to shoehorn real life into Eve.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Turifica
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-07-24 18:30:32 UTC
maybe, when you sober up, you'll revisit some of the inferno dev blogs, in which they specifically mention instituting a system whereby modules will be introduced into the game for limited amounts of time, etc. They even cast it specifically as a result of a techonological arms race fueled by the drug Inferno.

drink less, read more.