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Dark Knight Rises - Spoilers Thread

Author
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Noctis
Shoot First.
#1 - 2012-07-23 15:46:06 UTC
Making this thread for those who have seen DKR. If you haven't, go immediately to the nearest IMAX and watch it. It's awesome.

Still reading and haven't seen the movie? Fine. I warned you.

Great movie. I loved nearly everything about it. Catwoman was very well-portrayed, fitting in well with the gritty, pseudo-realistic setting of the series. I felt like she and Bats didn't get enough screen time together to develop the love/hate relationship that seems so characteristic of them (I'll come back to this, sort of), but overall the character was great and it was kind of refreshing to see an attractive woman in a skin-tight costume who WASN'T treated as eye candy.

Bane was a great character. He has a kind of intelligent brutality that makes him the most dangerous kind of enemy for Batman: able to directly compete with him, only without the rules and morality that give him restraint. Some people have complained he met too quick an end, but I think it was the right way for him to go out: he was such a fighter, such a survivor that it took high-powered weapons and the element of surprised to finally put him down for good (and to be honest, it's never confirmed that he's dead).

I saw the plot twist coming a mile away. The identity of the trigger man was obvious to me rather early on; it was the accent that gave it away. I didn't quite connect her with "the child" but at the same time had that nagging feeling that something was up in the way they never directly said that the child was Bane.

My major complaint about the movie is the pacing of it. The Dark Knight had absolutely perfect pacing: if the movie was ever in danger of dragging, the Joker showed up and upstaged himself again. He constantly pushed the movie forward and maintained a level of tension that DKR never achieved. The escalation to the siege of Gotham was brilliant, but then it was a lot of waiting for something to happen. You don't really get a sense of just how bad things would have gotten in a New York cut off from the rest of the world. 12 million people suddenly without things they consider basic amenities...things would get bad no matter how hard you tried to control it.

I would expect it to look more like North Korea...instead it was Occupy Wall Street with guns. They killed all the rich people who they decided deserved to die and everyone else just...what? Happily lived in the penthouses? You never see how this occupation of Gotham affects anyone negatively but the rich people, and the fact that the streets are empty. Add in some crude security checkpoints, a summary execution of someone who violated a curfew, things that show you that EVERYONE would be living in fear under such a rule.

The middle of the movie just didn't flow well for me. As I said, I'd have liked to see moreabout Bane's rule over Gotham and how it impacted the citizens, and more time on Catwoman and Batman. We all knew Bruce was going to climb out of the prison and the free police were going to do some stuff. 10 minutes less of those two things would have left plenty of time to show the important stuff AND get the audience further invested in other parts of the movie. I just felt a lot more detached from the characters this time around.

One final thought: the ending scene with Alfred at the cafe could have been omitted. We'd already established that Bruce had fixed the autopilot and opened up the possibility that he'd bailed out. If we didn't SEE him at that cafe, we'd have an open-ended plot where the audience decides for themselves: Did he let himself die because he was tired of it? If he bailed out, what now? Did he run off with Selena, or will Batman reappear? I've decided to believe that Alfred was fantasizing, as he had before, and that what he saw was too perfect an outcome to have been real. The Dark Knight isn't supposed to get a happy ending. He's supposed to fight until he can't fight any more.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-07-23 15:55:49 UTC
I would but some guy might come in and start shooting... that would really.... spoil... the movie for me

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

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Nirnias Stirrum
Soggy Biscuit.
#3 - 2012-07-23 15:57:12 UTC
I think the reason it ended with Alfred seeing him at the cafe was because near the end someone said Bruce cant always be Batman, that eventually someone else will have to take up the mantle, hence how Robin came then.. Probably left it open for the next batman movie to be played by a different actor in a different setting or something.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Noctis
Shoot First.
#4 - 2012-07-23 16:08:40 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
I think the reason it ended with Alfred seeing him at the cafe was because near the end someone said Bruce cant always be Batman, that eventually someone else will have to take up the mantle, hence how Robin came then.. Probably left it open for the next batman movie to be played by a different actor in a different setting or something.


I get why they did it, I just would have preferred to see something more ambiguous at the end of such an epic trilogy. Knowing the autopilot worked, we can assume whatever we want. Giving Wayne the perfect life after Batman just doesn't fit with the character established in the movies or the comics.

The successor will be Nightwing. They're wisely going to skip right over Robin the sidekick and take him directly to working on his own.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#5 - 2012-07-23 16:21:24 UTC
I missed my chance on Saturday to go with a friend but we were discussing a few points when he stopped by later on and explained the whole thing to me.

One problem that I already have without seeing it is a special Iron Man-esque project that they were working on which is supposed to be sustainable power that is good for the environment. What they really meant was that they were building a nuclear reactor that did some fission/fusion thing.

Then we got to talking about the prison with no guards and there were 2 points that boggled us there. The first part was that he mentioned the escape route consisting of bars or something in the wall that go up to a certain point. From there you have to leap over to a ledge and climb the rest of the way. The problem is that the ledge is just out of reach for most people and they fall. Now here's the thing...there are no guards. Why not just take the time to fashion a few more spikes to put in the wall. You've got plenty of time there to work on this it seems.

The other half was the whole thing about trying to kill the woman and child in the prison. So we have a prison full of men......and 2 ladies. Why oh why are they trying to kill the women? Is this a man's only club here? As my friend put it, "I don't care how hagged that ass may be, I'd would protect her at all cost because she'd be MY *****".

I might try on Wednesday to catch a showing of it myself.

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Noctis
Shoot First.
#6 - 2012-07-23 16:28:55 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
One problem that I already have without seeing it is a special Iron Man-esque project that they were working on which is supposed to be sustainable power that is good for the environment. What they really meant was that they were building a nuclear reactor that did some fission/fusion thing.


The thing to understand about that is that it's purely a plot device. They needed a nuclear bomb with a fixed lifespan, so they invented a fusion reactor that could be turned into a bomb, but would decay to the point of detonation over the course of months. Ignroe the "science" of it and accept it as what it is: something to force a specific plot outcome.

Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Then we got to talking about the prison with no guards and there were 2 points that boggled us there. The first part was that he mentioned the escape route consisting of bars or something in the wall that go up to a certain point. From there you have to leap over to a ledge and climb the rest of the way. The problem is that the ledge is just out of reach for most people and they fall. Now here's the thing...there are no guards. Why not just take the time to fashion a few more spikes to put in the wall. You've got plenty of time there to work on this it seems.


It's not quite that simple, and the lack of tools would make it rather difficult. But yes, if you could get a decent hard rock, you could spend some time on the ledge carving a foothold that should make things a lot easier. And while there are no guards, there's nothing that says a guy with an AK couldn't peek over the edge from time to time and shoot anyone trying to cheat their way out.

Micheal Dietrich wrote:
The other half was the whole thing about trying to kill the woman and child in the prison. So we have a prison full of men......and 2 ladies. Why oh why are they trying to kill the women? Is this a man's only club here? As my friend put it, "I don't care how hagged that ass may be, I'd would protect her at all cost because she'd be MY *****".


I don't think the mother was deliberately killed. I would expect she was basically raped to death. The little girl was protected by Bane after that. I got the impression that she was in the prison for a length of time after her mother died.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-07-23 23:16:21 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Great movie. I loved nearly everything about it. Catwoman was very well-portrayed, fitting in well with the gritty, pseudo-realistic setting of the series. I felt like she and Bats didn't get enough screen time together to develop the love/hate relationship that seems so characteristic of them (I'll come back to this, sort of), but overall the character was great and it was kind of refreshing to see an attractive woman in a skin-tight costume who WASN'T treated as eye candy.


She wasn't called catwoman in the film, but was referred to as a cat burglar. I don't think there was time in the film for more time with the two of them because nolan gave too much time to the robin character as well as other structural problems.



Quote:
Bane was a great character.


Eh, he was ok.

Quote:
My major complaint about the movie is the pacing of it. The Dark Knight had absolutely perfect pacing: if the movie was ever in danger of dragging, the Joker showed up and upstaged himself again. He constantly pushed the movie forward and maintained a level of tension that DKR never achieved.


Agreed.



Quote:
The escalation to the siege of Gotham was brilliant, but then it was a lot of waiting for something to happen. You don't really get a sense of just how bad things would have gotten in a New York cut off from the rest of the world. 12 million people suddenly without things they consider basic amenities...things would get bad no matter how hard you tried to control it.


Not enough time for it.



Quote:
I would expect it to look more like North Korea...instead it was Occupy Wall Street with guns. They killed all the rich people who they decided deserved to die and everyone else just...what? Happily lived in the penthouses? You never see how this occupation of Gotham affects anyone negatively but the rich people, and the fact that the streets are empty. Add in some crude security checkpoints, a summary execution of someone who violated a curfew, things that show you that EVERYONE would be living in fear under such a rule.


That part of the film was inspired by the french revolution... which was basically a rioting mob and not a civilized, enlightened revolution like America or India had.

One thing, it wasn't about everyone. The movie didn't need to talk about the average person save for the loonies that were rioting. It was about the people involved in the plot. The average person wasn't the focal point of the plot. In dark knight, when average people showed up, they did so for definite reasons. This movie was too long as it was and frankly it didn't need to sidetrack itself anymore.

This movie was also a surprisingly conservative film. It didn't want to glorify a mob. It showed the mob as the evil people they were: people who kill people and steal and loot without really caring about guilt. They were just pawns; useful idiots as Stalin put them. It was also a warning to the rich who would get in bed with radicals: when the bad guys take over they don't care who you were, you will get screwed over.

It, like the last one, also had a thing about the consequences of and taking responsibility for your actions.



As for the ending with Alfred, it needed to be there. One of the thing Batman did was he wanted to reward people and show them trust. Bruce knew what Alfred's dream was and that was his way of saying thank you (as well as trying to make up after the fight) by making it come true.