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PvP And Me
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Marco Kerensky
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-07-22 20:14:39 UTC
So here I am, finally deciding that I'm getting bored of Carebearing, and I decided I need help. I understand basics of PvP, but I have little comprehension of how it is to be done.

I want to get into solo/small gang PvP, but I have no idea what I have to do. I know generally how to fit, but I don't quite understand how much should be appropriated to what. I don't know which ships are decent, and which are completely overshadowed by others.

I've looked into speccing into a PvP Pulse Zealot, but I hear that a lot of what the Zealot does, the Harb does better. I want to know which ships are good for PvP, and how I should consider fitting them. Should I be putting on 5 plates and a couple hardeners? One plate and 4 hardeners, and some heatsinks or something like that? That's how clueless I am. I'm willing to wait the year, or whatever it'll take to properly spec skills, but I need to know what I'm doing before I even consider wasting my time learning skills for something that's not worth using.

And please keep in mind that this'll be fore solo/small gang PvP, not for huge factional warfare.

I know I'll need Jammers, Props, typically a buffer tank, and the best and most cost efficient guns I can fit, but I don't know how to allocate my slots.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#2 - 2012-07-22 20:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
If you are just starting and learning, my best piece of advice? Start with frigates.

I'm pretty new to pvp as the driver rather than passenger myself, but found this blog to be my bible and helped a ton so far. I have been making a lot less mistakes due to learning from what he did. He also started with Amarr (punisher) so it is even better for you. Give it a read ( I am starting to think i need a commission for spreading his blog around so much. But it is that good).
http://flight-of-dragons.blogspot.se/2011/02/plan-or-how-to-learn-to-solo-pvp-in-new.html

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-07-23 01:49:12 UTC
Join RvB for a few months and start with Frigates. Work your way up in ship sizes as you get confident in your overall PvP comprehension. You will get lots of fights and have fun with each different ship classes abilities. Frigates can be just as much fun as BS's when you know what you are doing.

Mike
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#4 - 2012-07-23 04:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dibblerette
While RvB can certainly give you experience, compared to solo roaming pvp it would be like comparing prearranged 1700's-style line fighting to modern combined arms combat.

What you may want to do (And it worked for me) is to follow the age old advice of starting with a frigate. Do a little research and try to find what fits best with your skills. If you used shield tanked ships to carebear, look at the Merlin. If you prefered smaller, faster ships, the Rifter is a good choice. If you went balls-to-the-walls damage, the Incursus might be your best bet. If you liked to sit there and tank God's wrath, maybe the Punisher is more your style. Regardless of the ship you choose, look up some fits either on failheap, battleclinic or here on the forums. Then buy 20 hulls, and 20 fits, and assemble and number them all. Then, go explore your local lowsec.

The objective here is to lose your ships. You heard me, every single one. The catch? After every loss, you need to look and see what you didn't know, could have done better, and what you would do if you got into that same situation again. If possible, FRAPSing your fights can be helpful, but the play-by-play can get a little tedious. The idea here is to acclimate you to losing a ship, and get rid of the loss aversion that can at times be crippling. In addition, you will very quickly realize the gaps in your knowledge, of both mechanics and combat, as well as skills (both player and character).

By the time your last frigate explodes, you'll hopefully realize that that particular hull lasted as long as the first 5 frigates combined, and even managed to pay for itself in loot. At the point, you have an important decision to make:

What kind of ship should I get 20 of next?
Marco Kerensky
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-07-23 05:28:49 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

http://flight-of-dragons.blogspot.se/2011/02/plan-or-how-to-learn-to-solo-pvp-in-new.html


I haven't seen anybody reference that blog in ages. I forgot it existed, but I really liked taht back when I first thought about getting into PvP before the daunting task of skilling put me off, and I kinda stopped playing Eve.


Dibblerette wrote:
While RvB can certainly give you experience, compared to solo roaming pvp it would be line comparing prearranged 1700's-style line fighting to modern combined arms combat.

What you may want to do (And it worked for me) is to follow the age old advice of starting with a frigate. Do a little research and try to find what fits best with your skills. If you used shield tanked ships to carebear, look at the Merlin. If you prefered smaller, faster ships, the Rifter is a good choice. If you went balls-to-the-walls damage, the Incursus might be your best bet. If you liked to sit there and tank God's wrath, maybe the Punisher is more your style. Regardless of the ship you choose, look up some fits either on failheap, battleclinic or here on the forums. Then buy 20 hulls, and 20 fits, and assemble and number them all. Then, go explore your local lowsec.

The objective here is to lose your ships. You heard me, every single one. The catch? After every loss, you need to look and see what you didn't know, could have done better, and what you would do if you got into that same situation again. If possible, FRAPSing your fights can be helpful, but the play-by-play can get a little tedious. The idea here is to acclimate you to losing a ship, and get rid of the loss aversion that can at times be crippling. In addition, you will very quickly realize the gaps in your knowledge, of both mechanics and combat, as well as skills (both player and character).

By the time your last frigate explodes, you'll hopefully realize that that particular hull lasted as long as the first 5 frigates combined, and even managed to pay for itself in loot. At the point, you have an important decision to make:

What kind of ship should I get 20 of next?


That's the thing. I have no skills 'cuz I'm not willing to start out with 500M in implants and die and lose those, I've never bothered making a jump clone because I'm a carebear, and thus I rarely get podded. I'm an alt who's supposed to be a first foray into PvP, and an intended PvPer. If I die, I die. I'll take this advice, and willingly throw away ships. I thank you all for your advice, it is much appreciated. It sounds like it'll be a good time.

However, just curious which ships that aren't frigates (HAC+) are good for solo/small gang PvP. For as long as I've lived, if my corp got into a war, I'd either fit some little worthless frigate with some half-assed Ewar fit and throw it away, or cower in a space station, fearful of losing my hard earned Isk. I want to be able to be a worthy asset in those small corporation wars, capable of joining the 5-10 people we have in crushing their group, or even just capable of going out on my own and taking some down with me. Which sort of ships fit that bill?
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-07-23 05:45:27 UTC
"While RvB can certainly give you experience, compared to solo roaming pvp it would be like comparing prearranged 1700's-style line fighting to modern combined arms combat. "



Yea, not the reality at all. There are arranged fights (roughly even numbers in fleets and ship classes) however most of the fighting was roaming around solo or in small groups with no arrangements. Bottom line is if you want to learn how to fly your ship, trial and error are the best teacher and you will find more opportunities to fight (1v1 always available and honored) in RvB then solo roaming in lowsec.

Oh, you will also probably have fun fighting every time you undock in RvB... just a guess though.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#7 - 2012-07-23 05:58:34 UTC
Marco Kerensky wrote:

That's the thing. I have no skills 'cuz I'm not willing to start out with 500M in implants and die and lose those, I've never bothered making a jump clone because I'm a carebear, and thus I rarely get podded. I'm an alt who's supposed to be a first foray into PvP, and an intended PvPer. If I die, I die. I'll take this advice, and willingly throw away ships. I thank you all for your advice, it is much appreciated. It sounds like it'll be a good time.

However, just curious which ships that aren't frigates (HAC+) are good for solo/small gang PvP. For as long as I've lived, if my corp got into a war, I'd either fit some little worthless frigate with some half-assed Ewar fit and throw it away, or cower in a space station, fearful of losing my hard earned Isk. I want to be able to be a worthy asset in those small corporation wars, capable of joining the 5-10 people we have in crushing their group, or even just capable of going out on my own and taking some down with me. Which sort of ships fit that bill?


The current kings of above-frigate PvP are Battlecruisers. They pack a good punch, have tank enough to fight under gate/sentry guns if need be, are usually quick enough (especially shield/nano fits) to avoid unfavorable fights, and above all, cheap! Insurance will cover most of the hull price, meaning you're only really buying the fit each time. This is far from the case for HACs, as T2 insurance is nowhere close to as helpful.

Hurricanes and Drakes are the staples of most PvP. Drake for it's awesome tank, and amazing damage projection (HMLs go faaaar) and the Hurricane for its superior damage and flexibility. There are several well-tested fits for each, so I won't go into a ton of detail, but here are some ideas:

Drake:
Nano kiting (PODLA Drake)
Bait Brick
HAM Drake

Hurricane:
Shield Nanocane
Armor Dual Webs
Artillery
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2012-07-23 15:42:19 UTC
Also good to know and great to listen to:

Bringing Solo Back Podcast

It is currently on episode 16 and will teach you a thing or two about what to do and what not to do ;-)

Also don't forget to check out Kil2's youtube channel.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Elias Greyhand
#9 - 2012-07-23 18:46:52 UTC
I concur with the Frigate thing.. My first PvP loss was a Drake, even though I was just on the move rather than trying to actively engage.

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-07-23 20:10:18 UTC
Marco Kerensky wrote:


That's the thing. I have no skills 'cuz I'm not willing to start out with 500M in implants and die and lose those, I've never bothered making a jump clone because I'm a carebear, and thus I rarely get podded. I'm an alt who's supposed to be a first foray into PvP, and an intended PvPer. If I die, I die. I'll take this advice, and willingly throw away ships. I thank you all for your advice, it is much appreciated. It sounds like it'll be a good time.

However, just curious which ships that aren't frigates (HAC+) are good for solo/small gang PvP. For as long as I've lived, if my corp got into a war, I'd either fit some little worthless frigate with some half-assed Ewar fit and throw it away, or cower in a space station, fearful of losing my hard earned Isk. I want to be able to be a worthy asset in those small corporation wars, capable of joining the 5-10 people we have in crushing their group, or even just capable of going out on my own and taking some down with me. Which sort of ships fit that bill?


While it is true that BC's are generally better than HAC's in most regards one area where the hac's make up for it is gangs where logi is present. The t2 resist profiles of HAC's make for much stiffer tanks under remote reps.

If you want to fly larger ships solo or in small gangs and you need to be prepared to engage forces larger than your own. When fighting against the odds the size of your tank often means less than your ability to dictate range and project damage. Nano drakes, arty canes and shield harbs are generally good options for this. The trick is to know when to run away and when to commit to a fight.