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Hey, another AFK cloaky thread

Author
irishFour
Garoun Investment Bank
#1 - 2012-07-22 20:09:06 UTC
I am going to beat the old drum again,
I propose a system upgrade "Anti-Cloaking System Upgrade"

"Creates a system-wide inhibitor field which prevents cloaking modules functioning"
"Can not be installed in a system that also has a Cynorsural System Jammer upgrade installed"

Now, for balance sake, 2 components.
1, no one can cloak, double edge sword so no one can use it as an out.
2. people have to chose, safety of a jammed system, or safety from afk cloakers. This way the afk cloaky problem can be solved in such a way you have to give up something. The old " you cant have your cake and eat it too"

Finally, I propose yet another afk cloaky solution because its a function of the game that has no counter, thus needs a tool to balance it out.


Post Script......will CCP please add eve terminology to the dictionary database, I'm so sick of typing eve threads and seeing all my eve terms turn red.

I like to have my cake and eat it too

Busta Rock
The DawnSoarers
#2 - 2012-07-22 20:13:44 UTC
I prefer just making non-covops cloaks require cap booster charges, with a base cycle time equal to the cap charge rating in seconds. leave covops cloaks alone.
raz1980
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-22 20:25:16 UTC
Well i think it should have a timer of say 15 mins to stay cloaked and after 15 minutes the cloaking device starts to over heat and take damage. The cloaky *** has to repair the cloaking device while uncloaked and reactivate the device

*So he/she cant stay cloaked 23.5/7

have fun and fly safe peeps or don't
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#4 - 2012-07-22 20:37:40 UTC
Remove local.


Rabble rabble rabble.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

irishFour
Garoun Investment Bank
#5 - 2012-07-22 20:45:28 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Remove local.


Rabble rabble rabble.



awesome idea for jita,

I like to have my cake and eat it too

Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2012-07-22 20:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
So where's the balance in regards to intel? With your idea, you've just improved locals intel power enormously. I don't see any balance in that at all.

No, try again.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Rengerel en Distel
#7 - 2012-07-22 20:51:22 UTC
Unless they've found a way to somehow interact with you while AFK, them being cloaked shouldn't really cause you any issues. Not sure really why so many people have problems with someone being AFK in your system.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
Liandri Covenant
#8 - 2012-07-22 23:20:06 UTC
I would actually think the solution could be far more simple.
Cloak Detection Probes

They could be used for scanning down cloaked ships, I mean a cloaking device by nature does not physically hide the ship.
In-fact it is little more than a Sensor Trick, a bit like Radar Absorbant Materials on Aircraft ... I mean they don't hide the ship, just reduce their cross-section so it is difficult to tell them apart from natural background noise (i.e. Birds)

Thus the solution is to have a Combat Style Probe, that had more accuracy ... but the downside to them is that they take considerably longer to cycle scans due to a more comprehensive scan. Would need to be carefully balanced so we don't end up with the Combat Probe situation, which with a good probe scanner is possible to find targets (even as small as Frigates) within a matter of 2-3 Cycles. I mean it takes a lot of skill to achieve that quickly, but honestly is still too quick - Fleets imo should have atleast a minute before probes detect them, I've been able to scan down fleets in a single cycle.

Still that issue aside, a single ship (often a Frigate) on their own is a little more tricky to track down. This can take a minute or so depending on the Probers skills. Now if there were specific Probes for hunting down Cloaked ships, then the Cloak itself could have a value of how much it reduces the signature ... thus the better the Cloak, the more it is reduced in Signature.

This would in-turn increase the time it took to get a lock.
I mean look at certain Celestial Sites, such-as the specialised Mining / Gas ones - they tend to be a ***** to scan down... far more so than combat probing ships.

If there was a way to balance it so that probing these ships down took that same level of skill and frustration, then that would be awesome. Now especially when you consider most Cloaked pilots don't sit still, so even if you warp to them, you still have to find them.

With normal Cloaking devices this would be relatively easy, but Covert Ops (or Black Ops) this becomes more of a challenge given their speed and ability to warp while cloaked.

Now something that could also help in terms of that, without breaking the game could be that once probed down the ships gives off a unique signal that could be linked to your active scanner. Each time you hit "Scan" (i.e. every 10 seconds) a pulse is emiited that would "ping" visually in space momentarily.. making your tactical view and being zoomed out a good idea.

This said when this "ping" happens, the cloaked pilot could be informed his end that someone has detected him with a noise of their own.

The way I see it, this wouldn't reduce how effective Cloaking is. It would however force more people to use Covert Ops ships for their intended roles... rather than just super special awesome Probing Ships.

It would create a nice dynamic, similar to Destroyers trying to hunt down Submarines. I mean the choice is either a ping, or for mines to return with a specific role change akin to "depth charges"

I also believe that Cloaking Devices should use Capacitor, enough so that they can't exactly be perma-run. Enough so that based upon the ship-size, means they would use more Capacitor in-relation to what is available. You want a nice average of about 1hr to 1hr 30min of Cap. This would prevent AFK Cloaking, but someone who is semi-AFK Cloaking would still be able to do that just fine, as you'd warp between long safespots so the capacitor recharges and allows you to recloak for another hour or so.

Solutions to me that are little more than a "We have enough ISK to Anchour this and make Cloaking useless" to me are just stupid. I will say that cloaking on the whole is a considerably powerful tool though that has no real method for preventing past sheer luck or stupidity on the pilots part. To me the above suggestion would keep cloaking as a viable mechanic, but make it so that Skilled pilots would be able to have a chance to combat it.

This said, should these suggestions be acted upon though... for the love of god do not simply test internally CCP.
You guys frankly suck at the game, which to your credit so does a large portion of the player base - but in the hands of players who learn a system effectively, it becomes ridiculous. Combat Probing is a very good example of this, where most people are crap at it so seems like it works as intended - but then there are guys who basically use it daily for ganking. These are ppl, like myself who have it down to an artform. You have at most 30seconds to GTFO or the fleet will land on you... generally this means anything larger than a cruiser fleet will get rofl-stomped.

Now from a using it perspective, I think it's a fun and powerful tool... but I do think it is a little to easy. Esp when you compare it to certain Anomolies (such-as Radar) that can be a ***** to scan down. The system on the whole is fine, but it does need some fine tuning.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-23 03:54:50 UTC
RavenTesio wrote:
I would actually think the solution could be far more simple.
Cloak Detection Probes


This is as far as I got, you just broke WH's mate. These probes would be constantly deployed to scan for cloaked signatures and once one showed up, there goes any element of surprise the attackers had.

Rules I follow to judge if something would be good for the game:

1 - Does something need fixing and does the fix make sense?

2 - Would the fix cause any unintended problems to any other part of the community?

3 - Would the fix give an advantage to a specific group of people to mitigate risk?


Sorry mate, you just broke all three rules and therefore you don't get a gold star.

OP while I can respect your persistance on a topic that has been beaten to death, the solution you purpose is nothing but a feeble attempt to get rid of AFK Cloakers. With certain coalitions blued up 10 regions on either side of them there is no practicle way to stage effective fleets without launching a full invasion. Raiding would slow to a crawl and the miners and ratters can live in peace, but only if you belong to that specific coalition. This would farther increase the problem of NAPing everyone around you and would not be healthy for the game.

You broke rule # 3.

Instead have you considered removing local as an option.

Gerrick.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#10 - 2012-07-23 03:56:13 UTC
Anything done to hinder AFK cloakers will inevitably harm active cloakers as well, if not more.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-07-23 08:29:02 UTC
irishFour wrote:
I am going to beat the old drum again,
I propose a system upgrade "Anti-Cloaking System Upgrade"
[...]


Why?

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#12 - 2012-07-23 09:01:47 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
irishFour wrote:
I am going to beat the old drum again,
I propose a system upgrade "Anti-Cloaking System Upgrade"
[...]


Why?


As he said.

Why did you feel the need to create another thread when you could just have added your pointless comments to one of the plethora of other threads already in existence?

Why are you suggesting breaking cloaking?

Why is it that people can't accept their incompetence where cloaks are concerned. If I, who fail horribly at EvE, can survive perfectly well with cloakies around you must all be complete fail.

Yet another pointless whine about a system which doesn't really have any problems other than people's erroneous perceptions.
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#13 - 2012-07-23 09:53:40 UTC
Strange that the OP acknowledges that it's an old drum but that by beating it again s/he will somehow change the status quo....

Here's a tip: If it's an old drum and it hasn't already been fixed, perhaps it doesn't need fixing.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#14 - 2012-07-23 10:47:47 UTC
Seriously, that proposal from the OP.... total troll, has to be.

Not even going to waste my time explaining how bad it is.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-07-23 11:14:39 UTC
RavenTesio wrote:
I would actually think the solution could be far more simple.
Cloak Detection Probes

They could be used for scanning down cloaked ships, I mean a cloaking device by nature does not physically hide the ship.
In-fact it is little more than a Sensor Trick, a bit like Radar Absorbant Materials on Aircraft ... I mean they don't hide the ship, just reduce their cross-section so it is difficult to tell them apart from natural background noise (i.e. Birds)

Thus the solution is to have a Combat Style Probe, that had more accuracy ... but the downside to them is that they take considerably longer to cycle scans due to a more comprehensive scan. Would need to be carefully balanced so we don't end up with the Combat Probe situation, which with a good probe scanner is possible to find targets (even as small as Frigates) within a matter of 2-3 Cycles. I mean it takes a lot of skill to achieve that quickly, but honestly is still too quick - Fleets imo should have atleast a minute before probes detect them, I've been able to scan down fleets in a single cycle.

Still that issue aside, a single ship (often a Frigate) on their own is a little more tricky to track down. This can take a minute or so depending on the Probers skills. Now if there were specific Probes for hunting down Cloaked ships, then the Cloak itself could have a value of how much it reduces the signature ... thus the better the Cloak, the more it is reduced in Signature.

This would in-turn increase the time it took to get a lock.
I mean look at certain Celestial Sites, such-as the specialised Mining / Gas ones - they tend to be a ***** to scan down... far more so than combat probing ships.

If there was a way to balance it so that probing these ships down took that same level of skill and frustration, then that would be awesome. Now especially when you consider most Cloaked pilots don't sit still, so even if you warp to them, you still have to find them.

With normal Cloaking devices this would be relatively easy, but Covert Ops (or Black Ops) this becomes more of a challenge given their speed and ability to warp while cloaked.

Now something that could also help in terms of that, without breaking the game could be that once probed down the ships gives off a unique signal that could be linked to your active scanner. Each time you hit "Scan" (i.e. every 10 seconds) a pulse is emiited that would "ping" visually in space momentarily.. making your tactical view and being zoomed out a good idea.

This said when this "ping" happens, the cloaked pilot could be informed his end that someone has detected him with a noise of their own.

The way I see it, this wouldn't reduce how effective Cloaking is. It would however force more people to use Covert Ops ships for their intended roles... rather than just super special awesome Probing Ships.

It would create a nice dynamic, similar to Destroyers trying to hunt down Submarines. I mean the choice is either a ping, or for mines to return with a specific role change akin to "depth charges"

I also believe that Cloaking Devices should use Capacitor, enough so that they can't exactly be perma-run. Enough so that based upon the ship-size, means they would use more Capacitor in-relation to what is available. You want a nice average of about 1hr to 1hr 30min of Cap. This would prevent AFK Cloaking, but someone who is semi-AFK Cloaking would still be able to do that just fine, as you'd warp between long safespots so the capacitor recharges and allows you to recloak for another hour or so.

Solutions to me that are little more than a "We have enough ISK to Anchour this and make Cloaking useless" to me are just stupid. I will say that cloaking on the whole is a considerably powerful tool though that has no real method for preventing past sheer luck or stupidity on the pilots part. To me the above suggestion would keep cloaking as a viable mechanic, but make it so that Skilled pilots would be able to have a chance to combat it.

This said, should these suggestions be acted upon though... for the love of god do not simply test internally CCP.
You guys frankly suck at the game, which to your credit so does a large portion of the player base - but in the hands of players who learn a system effectively, it becomes ridiculous. Combat Probing is a very good example of this, where most people are crap at it so seems like it works as intended - but then there are guys who basically use it daily for ganking. These are ppl, like myself who have it down to an artform. You have at most 30seconds to GTFO or the fleet will land on you... generally this means anything larger than a cruiser fleet will get rofl-stomped.

Now from a using it perspective, I think it's a fun and powerful tool... but I do think it is a little to easy. Esp when you compare it to certain Anomolies (such-as Radar) that can be a ***** to scan down. The system on the whole is fine, but it does need some fine tuning.


>claims to have a simpler proposal
>writes an essay

nice work brah
Amaethon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-23 15:08:26 UTC
Anyone who has ever been an AFK cloaker knows that it is very easy to avoid being killed by one. The only people who get killed by AFK cloakers are bots and lazy pilots and I say good riddance to them.