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Problem with super nerf - super caps are committed for 23 hours and die if the subcap fleet welps
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Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2011-10-10 22:34:42 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
No guys, a mechanic that has nothing to do with the nerfs will end up screwed up because forum poster Jada Maroo said so.



Indeed. Now you're getting it. * Pats on head *


Oh boy. My face sure is red.


The politically correct term is Native American. Oops
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#82 - 2011-10-10 22:55:18 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I don't know whether to be delighted or horrified that there is this many supercapital pilots in the game with such a poor grasp on strategy and tactics. Seriously, the fear-mongering here is redonkulous.

Thank you everyone, for confirming once again that numbers and sizes have very little do to with increased amounts of thought put into battling it out, and that the make up of any fleet above 50 is about 90% terrified pilots who are completely dependent on the FC to wipe their asses for them. Seriously, I really dont care how big your 3p33n is or how many sp you have, if you're under the impression that supercarriers are now worthless than you deserve to either have it collect dust for eternity, or you deserve for it to die in a horrible fire.

Thank you CCP, for taking care of this. The scared supercap pilots who trained straight for the big stuff without every learning to, you know, PvP, deserve to be weeded out swiftly and severely when they dont put any thought into their drops, those pilots with a few brain cells and some balls o steel will be out scouting, planning, setting up cynos, primarying HIC's, and tactically handling these changes like champs.

To those nullsec jocks complaining that "if we lose subcap battle, we lose supercap battle" my advice is this - learn to fly smaller ships. You know, the ones that the other 95% of Eve players fly. Learn to fly them, and win. Yes, it is more difficult than jumping in a super, launching drones indefinitely, laughing at other players, than logging when things go south. Yes, its more difficult than hopping in an Abaddon and going down an alphabetical primary list and feeling like you're a badass cause you're with 500 others. But if you guys learn to actually PvP, and make independent decisions in a fleet situation, you might be able to instruct the subcap fleet that you'll need to defend yourself in how to do their job. And if your subcap buddies can't take out some HIC's or bubblers in time, well, thats your fault.

I think we're going to need a Tech 2 Noctis with tech 2 liquid extractors to gather all these tears come winter. I'm thrilled super pilots will actually have to pause for a bit and think before deploying their 'I WIN" buttons.

Everyone should be celebrating the triumph of tactics over resources. Eve is a great big sandbox and all, but just like all you people who said no "gold ammo" advantages, there likewise shouldn't be tactical advantages strictly because your Alliance owns more supers than the next. There should ALWAYS be a way for the clever smaller guy to get ahead, even against caps.


You win the game, all of it, really you sir win at life.

The pie is a tautology
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#83 - 2011-10-10 22:57:23 UTC
man im not even in 0.0 and the tears are fueling me

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2011-10-10 22:58:44 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The scared supercap pilots who trained straight for the big stuff without every learning to, you know, PvP, deserve to be weeded out swiftly and severely when they dont put any thought into their drops, those pilots with a few brain cells and some balls o steel will be out scouting, planning, setting up cynos, primarying HIC's, and tactically handling these changes like champs

This guy gets it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#85 - 2011-10-10 23:00:09 UTC
fap fap fap fap fap
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2011-10-10 23:14:40 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:


Thank you CCP, for taking care of this. The scared supercap pilots who trained straight for the big stuff without every learning to, you know, PvP, deserve to be weeded out swiftly and severely when they dont put any thought into their drops, those pilots with a few brain cells and some balls o steel will be out scouting, planning, setting up cynos, primarying HIC's, and tactically handling these changes like champs.


I oppose any changes that makes HICs primary. Falcons should have that role. Sad
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2011-10-10 23:35:01 UTC
xxxak wrote:
So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.


[Citation Needed]

(Was this in the nerf announcement, or are you just too lazy to carry a second load of fuel and a cyno out?)
Gank'aho
One within we are
#88 - 2011-10-10 23:36:58 UTC
Xython wrote:
xxxak wrote:
So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.


[Citation Needed]

(Was this in the nerf announcement, or are you just too lazy to carry a second load of fuel and a cyno out?)

Its not there, hes just mad.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#89 - 2011-10-10 23:42:54 UTC
If the enemy fleet has your SC HIC pointed then yes, so sorry.. can't log-out. If you go AFK, and your SC is idly drifitng outside the POS, and the enemy points it.. yes, you're screwed.

Just like.. you know.. everybody else under the same situation..

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2011-10-11 00:22:54 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
so 0.0 people are now complaining that they have to use tactics now?


Here lets break down tactics for the 0.0 people shall we?

Titan bridges in support fleet of recons and battleships to start jamming the enemy fleet.

Carriers and dreads jump in and start pounding the crap out of the enemy capitals.

Finally moms and titans jump in to make quick work of all those pesky triage carriers and the supers take down other supers.

The nerf is just going to make super cap pilots rely on their alliance for help now rather than wheee i have 25 fighter bombers and can kill anything.


Now if you all excuse me i have to go refit a moros and thanatos for battle with target painters.


Laughable. Titans will go back to being bridges, and Motherships will rot on dead accounts.
No one will put one on the field knowing if things go bad, the server farts in the wrong direction and a bunch of his fleet get dc'ed, whatever, he's dead.
The Dread buff alone would have been a good counter and made it harder to field small Super fleets without sufficient support, but as usual, CCP used a hammer instead of a chisel....

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
URDEAD2ME
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2011-10-11 00:32:13 UTC
the amount of time that iv seen caps log off when we was fighting was enough to make me wanna kick my dog so im glad they done this ... so is my dog.
Karnhell
Pandorum Industrie's
#92 - 2011-10-11 00:53:50 UTC
1. Remote ECM burst nerf. Not sure how this makes a big difference, but fine.

2. 20% HP reduction. Fine, this is a needed change.

3. Fighters and fighter-bombers only. So now I can't shoot towers anymore, only the mods outside of the shield. Every other ship in the game can do this, but supers can't. Silly, but whatever. I can see why it was done so I'll live with this nerf too.

4. Reduce dronebay from 200k to 125k (Aeon). Um, what? First I can only have fighters and fighter-bombers, then you tell me I can only carry a full complement of one plus five of the other? Now I'm getting mad. Forget deploying anywhere, who's going to carry the other half of my drones for me in case I need to swap out from structure shoot to fleet fight? And now, since I still can't dock, I need a POS with a corp hangar to hold them and a ship hangar for the fitting service to do the swap. Dumb dumb dumb. May as well just carry fighters only and let much (much!) cheaper Dreads do the structure shoots. Except...

5. Increase fighter signature resolution from 125 to 400. Seriously? Are you on crack? First I can't carry regular drones now my fighters are pretty useless for anything other than shooting structures and capitals. Well, I guess they'll hit a battleship. If it's sitting still. Maybe.

Side note: the fighter nerf affects all carriers, not just supers. No more ratting or assigning fighters with any carrier.

6. Change to logoff mechanics. ZOMGWTFMADBRO! You're telling me that if I get tackled by some silly little Flycatcher I'm completely screwed?! Follow me here: I can't jump or warp while bubbled. I can't launch Hobgoblins or Gardes and kill him because I don't have those anymore thanks to #3. I can't launch fighters and kill him, my fighters (if I even had room to bring them thanks to #4) can barely hit a battleship thanks to #5, how much luck will they have against a destroyer? And I can't log off (or god help me, lose my internet connection) because as long as he shoots me once every 15 minutes he can basically hold me there until he runs out of bubbles (over three hours!). That's just one example. Imagine sitting there aggro with your big expensive shiny ship, losing your internet connection, finally getting back on and finding that you were killed because someone probed you with a T1 frigate (supers are EASY to probe out) and shot you once every 15 minutes for 22 hours until his buddies finally formed up. No reason to rush, it's not like you're going anywhere! Crazy. And is this change really needed after implementing #2? I'd rather take a 40% HP reduction than take this change to logging off.

So, to re-cap:
#1 is fine.
#2 is fine and long overdue.
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#93 - 2011-10-11 01:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Draculina Alucardi wrote:
...tears...


also

Karnhell wrote:
...moar tears...


I can haz supers?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Epic voice
Epic.
#94 - 2011-10-11 01:43:45 UTC
EVE is a machiavellian game.
Now CCP is acting up and is breaking the status quo.
all i want to say to this is Hurray!!
(and im sure old Niccolò would aswell) Big smile
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#95 - 2011-10-11 01:47:58 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:


Sort of a bad example, modern supercarriers can win wars with most countries on earth by themselves.




Yes, when that country is the USA, England, or Russia, and soon possibly China too.

These are the "superpowers" of our planet that basically say what goes for the most part, for good or bad (that's not the topic here).

So in many ways, while you might be right in my assertion of comparing aircraft carriers to supers, your pointing out a RL comparison is in fact proving a point commonly made about supers being OP or the game being "caps online". The reason is, your RL comparison points out that indeed a RL carrier can PWN like an entire navy fleet, but only against smaller, weaker countries.

And often this is used to control areas - in the case of the west - way more land and seas than a nation should control (again for good or bad but once you centralize power, the bad people take control and make sure it's bad eventually).


Beyond this level I don't know - never flew a super and spent more time running from them than fighting them.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#96 - 2011-10-11 01:50:22 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:

You win the game, all of it, really you sir win at life.


Naaaaah, winning at life would be possessing a real-life Rifter that I can fly around in to visit Pluto and the asteroid belt in the Sol system when I'm not sitting at my computer playing EvE. And, yes, it would have 200mm autocannons that I can use to blow up old satellites and other assorted space junk floating in orbit around Earth.

Ok, scratch that. I was totally wrong. Winning at life would be buying up the old International Space Station once its declared obsolete, duct taping some 1400mm artillery cannons and an engine onto the exterior, naming it "Clear Skies", and taking up residence.

Either way, I think I better start saving my isk!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#97 - 2011-10-11 01:50:51 UTC
if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2011-10-11 01:51:00 UTC
Karnhell wrote:



#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(


In answer to all of the above, where is your sub-cap support? Stop thinking in old terms and think as a combinded fleet instead of your solo wtfpwn mobile.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#99 - 2011-10-11 02:01:24 UTC
Karnhell wrote:
Stuff.


3.) Fit your ship to do ONE thing well, bring a friend who can do the other.
4.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.
5.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.
6.) Bring friends that can kill small ships.

If this is too difficult for you to manage, you're probably better off unsubbing or finding a different Alliance. Sounds like your current fleetmates have similarly all bought their capital toons from Ebay, and are at a loss when it comes to competently flying ships that can easily protect you from the threats you're so terrified of.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#100 - 2011-10-11 02:07:18 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
if they can make is so that supers stay on the grid after logoff if agressed, why cant they do that for all ships



There isn't much need, the current mechanics really only impact ships like Jump Freighters and Supercaps, where the HP buffer is enough for the logoffski to endure 15 mins of whatever DPS they are likely to encounter.

I mean, they could reset the timer every time something shoots your battleship, but how many situations will you find where a battleship can survive 15 mins of damage and not pop? I suppose if you logoff in an otherwise empty system so you can survive the noobship that's tackling you....

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary