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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

First post First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#521 - 2012-07-20 17:59:32 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
We have allies, not pets.



right dont they all have allies?

or are you suggesting that all those allies are on equal footing as GSF and Test?

i would not presume so... if push came to shove they would quickly become pets and have thier moons removed if they did not preform up to your standards...

this happened a few months ago with black something or other...

so if anything they are second class allies...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#522 - 2012-07-20 18:05:51 UTC
mercuryyy wrote:
If the numbers in the blog are real

--
100 Cobalt and 100 Platinum
reacts into
1 Unrefined Platinum Technite
refines into
10 Platinum Technite
and
95 Platinum
-

you basically use 100 Cobalt and 5 Platinum to get just 10 Platinum Technite per reaction cycle (= POS Cycle = 1 hour, i take it).
At current values, you would be loosing money not only on the pure reaction, but also on the fuel needed for that reactor/refineries bzw refining taxes etc.
To break even, the Tech Price (and with that the Platinum Technite price) would have to at least rise by 500% to make it worthwile to do this alchemy reaction.. This surely isnt a way to force prices down, if thats at all necessary.


there are only few who understand the dark art of math
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2012-07-20 18:07:18 UTC
Allies: get stuff to do more stuff.
Pets: pay for stuff.

vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Cynosurza
State War Academy
Caldari State
#524 - 2012-07-20 18:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cynosurza
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
We have allies, not pets.



right dont they all have allies?

or are you suggesting that all those allies are on equal footing as GSF and Test?

i would not presume so... if push came to shove they would quickly become pets and have thier moons removed if they did not preform up to your standards...

this happened a few months ago with black something or other...

so if anything they are second class allies...


How little you understand. Let's dumb it down for you. You're probably the type of kid that was always picked on at recess, so lets say your balls finally dropped and you decided to get some stronger friends so you wouldn't be picked on anymore. Now lets say your BFF, Timmy, also wants to join your group, but when you go fight the other kids, Timmy sits in a corner, shaking and mumbling like a sperg, probably like what you used to do. If Timmy keeps doing that, will you keep him in your circle of friends? No.

Just as in the coalition, every member is expected to perform the basic duties of showing up to coalition wide operations in a force equal to at least their size. If they do not, then they're given a period to correct that, if they continue to disregard orders, then they're purged.

Now, back to the topic at hand:

"I do not belong to the tech cartell,
but i really think this is something that you (CCP) should not "FIX".

The Tech-Cartell is CONTENT that was created by players,
and it's not up to you to "fix" that. It's something we players should fix.

Instead of listening to all the whiners, you should tell 'em
"htfu retards, form a new coalition and teach those tech bastards a lesson"
changing the game so they don't have their "advantage" anymore means
invalidating what they have done, and taking the content of slapping them for doing it from us.

stop removing content. rather give us new toys."


^^ This. The CFC is player generated CONTENT, OTEC is again, people who were formerly enemies, looking at the wider picture of getting rich, equally, instead of fighting amongst ourselves to no end, AKA, using the sandbox. The whiners and vocal minority that cry to CCP to "fix" this are just jealous they can't create an equally strong coalition.

The game is not broken because all the resources are in one northern area, Fozzie was wrong when he said it was in one region, it's in several regions and lowsec and requires a great deal of coordination to manage and defend.

Tech makes a goal for people to aim for, to throw away their training wheels and form new coalitions to attack. Why remove something which makes eve have a focus. If you spread the new "tech" all over the damn universe, everything is boring again, for everyone, and the only people that will then 'profit' will be the botters.

Group activity to get moongoo? Yep, botters will exploit that. What will there be to fight over in nullsec without something consolidated to one area of the game that EVERYONE wants? If you remove that, the only reason to hold any space is ratting and I don't know about you, but ratting is effin lame!

If you're looking for ideas to fix the monopoly, CCP, place 4 equally valuable moongoo or whatever it is that you turn it into in each of the four areas of the game. Then there is something for everyone to aim for, but not so spread out that there is no reason to hold onto that particular cache.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#525 - 2012-07-20 18:43:10 UTC
Dyspro/prom made a good goal for people to aim for, too, and that was spread around evenly across the entire universe, it was an R64 and it was priced at 80/100k/unit, and CCP still changed that. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#526 - 2012-07-20 18:51:25 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Allies: get stuff to do more stuff.
Pets: pay for stuff.

vOv



The most I would classify your allies would be "vassal" allies...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#527 - 2012-07-20 19:00:39 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Allies: get stuff to do more stuff.
Pets: pay for stuff.

vOv



The most I would classify your allies would be "vassal" allies...

And?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#528 - 2012-07-20 19:03:38 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Little Fistter wrote:

Right now you are giving the dominant alliances all the power.


Excuse me little...eh..man..


They didn't give us anything. We took it from the 65,000 player coalition that held it before us then we turned it into something more than what they were doing with it.

Sorry that it doesn't fit your jaded view of reality but thats actually what happened with it. Nobody was given anything...


one could say that the dominant alliances were not dominant alliances until they took those things


timeline

PL allies with drone peeps and raiden to take out the nothern coalition...

they then set thier eyes on cfc but that fails HARD!

Eventually when it looks like raiden and friends cant hold thier space...

PL get an offer fro CFC saying we will let you keep your Tech moons if you play nice and fight for us...

so yeah... no one gave you tech PL... but you are now a member of the cfc and mittenz allowed you to keep them...

so admit it if you step out of line you loose your tech and loose your reinbursement program and then fighting becomes an actual risky adventure...

as a first step alchemy is a good one...

i am more interested in how they are going to rebalance tech II production costs... thats going to be the real Tech nerf...


Your timeline is off by a little, you forgot we've owned these tech twice, we took about 70 tech moons before the drone lands even started their war, one the NC massed its 65000 heartbeats and pointer fingers we lost them all over about 2 months with the Y- welp being the peak of the action where 1300 guys engaged a 65000 man coalition in their supers (and got curb stomped for it).

We then took the contract from IT to distract Goons which didn't go so well even though we made moderate gains on moons and CSAA's it was too little too late to save IT. And that would be a 1300 man alliance taking on the deklien coalition alone.

We would then return and start retaking the same moons about a month later and get hired in the process by the advancing droneland forces.

So i guess in reality your timeline isn't really accurate at all, along with your jaded opinion of the facts. I mean you could at least put a little effort and creativity into your hurf blurf.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#529 - 2012-07-20 19:08:33 UTC
Cynosurza wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
We have allies, not pets.



right dont they all have allies?

or are you suggesting that all those allies are on equal footing as GSF and Test?

i would not presume so... if push came to shove they would quickly become pets and have thier moons removed if they did not preform up to your standards...

this happened a few months ago with black something or other...

so if anything they are second class allies...


How little you understand. Let's dumb it down for you. You're probably the type of kid that was always picked on at recess, so lets say your balls finally dropped and you decided to get some stronger friends so you wouldn't be picked on anymore. Now lets say your BFF, Timmy, also wants to join your group, but when you go fight the other kids, Timmy sits in a corner, shaking and mumbling like a sperg, probably like what you used to do. If Timmy keeps doing that, will you keep him in your circle of friends? No.

Just as in the coalition, every member is expected to perform the basic duties of showing up to coalition wide operations in a force equal to at least their size. If they do not, then they're given a period to correct that, if they continue to disregard orders, then they're purged.
.


Wow I must have stuck a nerve with that one. Mainly because you are one of these “vassal” allies I speak of…

I am just saying you guys are like Sweden to NATO and Test and Goons are like America and Brittan…

I mean as long as the “Spice” flows you guys are all buddy buddy…

Just understand that after a tech Nerf (right now that has yet to happen) things will change…

“He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery.” ~Harold Wilson

I am assuming that the nerf will come with the way tech II products are made out of… a more balanced approach…

Plus if ring mining for moon mins becomes a reality expect that to keep your space you will have to pay a holding tax of some sort…

Then the niche market you have will no longer exist and at that point there will be trepidation and backstabbing…

To which I will gladly consume tears with my fav pop corn.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#530 - 2012-07-20 19:14:54 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

So i guess in reality your timeline isn't really accurate at all, along with your jaded opinion of the facts. I mean you could at least put a little effort and creativity into your hurf blurf.


Actually it was rather spot on bro.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#531 - 2012-07-20 19:18:37 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Allies: get stuff to do more stuff.
Pets: pay for stuff.

vOv



The most I would classify your allies would be "vassal" allies...

And?



Well the difference is the nature of how a true ally works vs. what you have setup...

There is nothing wrong with it...

It’s just the way it works...

I just don’t like you claiming you are any different then any of the other coalitions that have all risen and fallen in the past. When in reality you are the same just under different circumstances which allow you to be nicer and more lenient to your pets… But when tech II production is fixed I would be shocked if you were able to continue the way you operate… The only genuine people I have seen keep this up over the years are the Providence holders…

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#532 - 2012-07-20 19:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
MeBiatch wrote:
I mean as long as the “Spice” flows you guys are all buddy buddy…

Just understand that after a tech Nerf (right now that has yet to happen) things will change…

Plus if ring mining for moon mins becomes a reality expect that to keep your space you will have to pay a holding tax of some sort…

Then the niche market you have will no longer exist and at that point there will be trepidation and backstabbing…


Confirming that as soon as moonmining is nerfed and there is nothing to be gained from holding moons, we will backstab GSF to take their moons.

Oh wait.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#533 - 2012-07-20 19:27:56 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Allies: get stuff to do more stuff.
Pets: pay for stuff.

vOv



The most I would classify your allies would be "vassal" allies...

And?



Well the difference is the nature of how a true ally works vs. what you have setup...

There is nothing wrong with it...

It’s just the way it works...

I just don’t like you claiming you are any different then any of the other coalitions that have all risen and fallen in the past. When in reality you are the same just under different circumstances which allow you to be nicer and more lenient to your pets… But when tech II production is fixed I would be shocked if you were able to continue the way you operate… The only genuine people I have seen keep this up over the years are the Providence holders…


I guess if you conveniently ignore the fact that Goonswarm has pretty much always operated this way before tech was even a bottleneck. Hell, we only have tech now because we kept on good terms with TCF (an ally) instead of treating them like crap. I'm not sure what kind of relationship you'd like us to have with our allies but its certainly not going to be a democracy. At the end of the day you need somone at the top to make decisions or you're going to get your **** pushed in while you sit there counting votes.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#534 - 2012-07-20 19:31:41 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:

Confirming that as soon as moonmining is nerfed and there is nothing to be gained from holding moons, we will attack GSF to take their moons.

Oh wait.


You miss the point. Ring Mining Income is based off of active not passive...

Look at AAA they have to tax their pets that run annoms and such to get the majority of thier income...

Vs. you guys who just split up tech Moons and let the spice flow.

But once there is no passive spice and you have to be active to get it, the dynamic of your relationship will change...

you wont see goons doing active ring mining ops and then giving their hard earned isk to you just for nothing...


There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#535 - 2012-07-20 19:41:57 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:


you wont see goons doing active ring mining ops and then giving their hard earned isk to you just for nothing...




This doesn't happen now, so why would it happen then?

Are you mentally ill?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#536 - 2012-07-20 19:46:18 UTC
Yeep wrote:
I guess if you conveniently ignore the fact that Goonswarm has pretty much always operated this way before tech was even a bottleneck. Hell, we only have tech now because we kept on good terms with TCF (an ally) instead of treating them like crap. I'm not sure what kind of relationship you'd like us to have with our allies but its certainly not going to be a democracy. At the end of the day you need somone at the top to make decisions or you're going to get your **** pushed in while you sit there counting votes.



There is lots of truth in what you have to say.
Though now things are different and you guys are in the position you are in now.
It will be rather interesting to watch, from an outsiders perspective how/if your dynamic changes.

Personally I do hope that parts of the CFC collapse and there is more infighting... I personally don’t like how the eve 0.0 politics have turned into... (two massive coalitions duking it out)...

IMO the game was much more interesting when you had small alliances vying for the same space... the circle jerk has to end as some point right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#537 - 2012-07-20 19:52:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
I just don’t like you claiming you are any different then any of the other coalitions that have all risen and fallen in the past.

Sucks to be you, then, because we are. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you, again, since you'll just completely ignore it just like you do the facts Grath come up with.

MeBiatch wrote:
When in reality you are the same just under different circumstances which allow you to be nicer and more lenient to your pets…

Nope. We treated our allies the same way back before we had tech.

MeBiatch wrote:
But when tech II production is fixed I would be shocked if you were able to continue the way you operate…

Prepare to be shocked, I guess. vOv

MeBiatch wrote:
Personally I do hope that parts of the CFC collapse

At some point this'll happen, but tech (or lack thereof) won't be the cause.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#538 - 2012-07-20 19:53:36 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


you wont see goons doing active ring mining ops and then giving their hard earned isk to you just for nothing...




This doesn't happen now, so why would it happen then?

Are you mentally ill?



Jeez Grath. What?

The only differnce is passive vs. active... if it remains passiive then yes they are doing this now.. but if to get the same results you have to be active then things will change.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#539 - 2012-07-20 20:06:10 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Nope. We treated our allies the same way back before we had tech.

.


I agree but tbh that was at that time you were not the major power in the coalition (you were the grunts and your other allies did the heavy lifting) but now you are the big cheese and now you have tech.

The whole absolute power corrupts absolutely thing?

This has changed things...

I would say that if i was a member in your alliance i would be saying the same damn thing as you and flaming me just as bad... but i am on the outside not on any side... I left eve politics years ago and just dwell in stain region now days... So this gives me a less biased(or more biased lol) opinion on the situation.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2012-07-20 20:24:07 UTC
You're so desperate in your hope that we're just some big evil despot, ready to start whipping everyone the instant tech is nerfed.

It'd be hilarious to see just how disappointed you are going to be when that doesn't come to pass.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat