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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#481 - 2012-07-20 12:23:14 UTC
Dilly Dallyer2 wrote:
One totaly unrelated game mechanic that could also break the Tech monopoly would be to make standings based on player actions, not just a click of a button. Too much of the game is blue to each other. Indiscretions done to an Alliance should not be so easily forgotten.

as a sperglord, it is my contention that the ability of people to make friends is unfair and must be nerfed
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#482 - 2012-07-20 12:26:26 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
DanMck wrote:
tech is overpowered, without a doubt.

why you thought to change the prom and dyspro set up to a moon mineral only located in the north ? only you CCP can answer.

i can field that one

the person who did the dominion rebalance didn't understand how a bottlenecking system works and made tech valuable completely accidentally, when trying to make low-tier moons moderately valuble

Pity the entire playerbase didn't tell them before it went live, eh?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mustrum Yanger
My Little Spaceships
#483 - 2012-07-20 12:33:05 UTC
I cant wait to see how this plays plays out, its nice to hear PL saying this needs fixing even if it is in a rather quiet voice after they have allready made "trillions" and are sitting pretty and pre lubed, just above the mighty goon **** waiting to bounce up and down or giggle and run away again.

Whatever people say and all the other impacts this will have, do not expect goons or the cfc to collapse in a week or for test to wipe the *** off there chins and learn to play on there own, its not going to happen, they have made more isk allready than most of us can possibly imagine and can probably continue to dominate the way they have been with a few changes and the isk to make those changes happen as soon as the next loophole in finance is found.

What i hope this will achive in the longterm is a some of the smaller corps and fleets can afford go and pvp in small gangs again and find fights with similar numbers because more people can afford to fly t2 ships with t2 fits.

It would be good to see wormholes playing a further role as blob warfare is far harder to organise and fleet size is dictated by mass limits and so on. Sadly this would mean that supercaps would not be able to play a role in attaining 1 or 2 aspects of the t2 modules so smaller alliances MAY have a chance at making some isk owning the moons/sites or whatever ccp decides is needed for production. Maybe put these sites in wormholes that are not super profitable from slepers and t3 production and re classify them accordingly.

Putting tech in low sec spawning planitary belts maybe a step in the right direction again giving the chance for miners to risk their ships and pirates to have their fun and make their isk.

Big allaince warfare is all good if your idea of pvp is hitting F1-F8. I doubt the desire to own sov will reduce and the war for space will continue giving all the big alliance fleets something to fight for and over. I dont expect the removal of the fight for tech moons to affect nullsec losses/kills at all, there are so many other reasons to kill eachother it will just free up those assets for redeployment and other goals.

A good move CCP and welcome to the new guy but i think this is a case of to little to late and the damage may have allready been done....
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#484 - 2012-07-20 12:38:57 UTC
goonswarm fought its way up from a penniless alliance living in syndicate off ratting taxes during the tech era

if you're left behind and poor its because you're bad
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2012-07-20 12:39:03 UTC
Mustrum Yanger wrote:
I cant wait to see how this plays plays out, its nice to hear PL saying this needs fixing even if it is in a rather quiet voice after they have allready made "trillions" and are sitting pretty and pre lubed, just above the mighty goon **** waiting to bounce up and down or giggle and run away again.

Everyone has been saying tech needs fixing since well before the change even went onto TQ. Everyone.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Celeste Benal
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2012-07-20 12:59:17 UTC
After 18 pages of butthurt and squeeling, me thinks this won't solve the problem.

1. Tech ceiling from alchemy is twice the current price due to fuel costs. Cobalt is plentiful and Platinum recycles at 95/100 efficiency.

2. semi-passive income is still semi-passive.

I see ring and comet mining as ways to increase the amount of moongoo and ice products in Eve, respectively. These are both active professions and could produce a significant amount of product.

That being said... I'm much happier now.
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#487 - 2012-07-20 13:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Crunchmeister
R0ot wrote:
So am I the only one around here that thinks it would just be infinitely easier to randomize the moons again and spread Tech moons around all regions instead of limited to one particular "area".

Good Idea / Bad Idea?


I've been saying this for a while now. To me this would be a much simpler solution to this problem than alchemy. It seems to me like someone is missing the point here and curing the disease by killing the patient. The real issue isn't the existence of Tech or the fact it can only be gained from moon mining. It's the fact that it's concentrated into only a limited few regions of space that's the real issue.

Randomizing the locations of tech is one way to deal with this ongoing issue. Spreading the resource out across the universe would balance things a lot more. But I also that that introducing depletion mechanics into moon mining in general would be another way of dealing with this. Make it so that moons have a finite amount of resources. Give a cap of say 2 month or so (of course, that number is just thrown out there - balancing would be needed) worth of materials. Once depleted, resourceswould 'respawn' on another moon in another random region, would have to be found via moon probes, etc.

Realistic? Nope. But neither are magically respawning asteroid belts or planetary resources....

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2012-07-20 13:08:46 UTC
YES LET'S GO FOR DEPLETING MOONS BECAUSE SCANNING MOONS IS SO MUCH FUN FOO DIGGITY LET'S DO THIS ****

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#489 - 2012-07-20 13:13:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Louis deGuerre wrote:
If this ensure that prices drop so I can afford to PVP again in something other than T1 frigs I love it.

But I just don't get it. It is such a strange solution.

Why not use your PI system (flaws and all) to produce vital moon minerals instead ?
That would ensure that minerals are distributed more evenly over the galaxy, are dynamic resources, and give DUST bunnies something meaningful to fight over.


This is the first step in our plan to revamp tech 2 production. Changes to how the minerals are obtained will be coming before we're done (although probably not from PI).

if you try to make moon minerals move around and keep that scanning interface im kidnapping you and making you scan an entire region before letting you go
X1376
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#490 - 2012-07-20 13:18:01 UTC
Heh. New game developer is supposed to tackle this issue? That will be a wild ride...

If it is a pressure valve, it has to kick in quickly when prices goes up. Setting up POSes, reactions, getting components and get it all delivered on market will be slow, way too fluctuating. Already want to see those space jockeys going to do it.
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2012-07-20 13:20:25 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
YES LET'S GO FOR DEPLETING MOONS BECAUSE SCANNING MOONS IS SO MUCH FUN FOO DIGGITY LET'S DO THIS ****


EvilweaselSA wrote:
If you try to make moon minerals move around and keep that scanning interface im kidnapping you and making you scan an entire region before letting you go


Must agree with this. The current moon scanning systems is .... well... utter garbage. If that could be made better, then scanning moons for new resources would be an option. Under the current scanning system, not so much.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#492 - 2012-07-20 13:24:06 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Haffsol wrote:
Spreading tech moons or giving to _all the regions_ equal or equivalent benefits is just lame. The concentration of power and highly specialized business should be very welcome because it SHOULD mean more war!!


Except, as we can clearly see if we look at what is actually happening in eve, it doesn't. Blues and NAP everywhere.



I find it hilarious how one side constantly complains about there being no conflict, no fighting, just NAPs. Then they go and do absolutely nothing about it but whine on the forums. Meanwhile the other side gets people in ships, forms up, and goes kick somebody's ass. What does the side asking for more fights do? Ah right, they dock up and keep whining about there being no fights and 0.0 being stagnant.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#493 - 2012-07-20 13:25:38 UTC
Well duh, we never brought the ships makalu would fight. His list got pretty long towards the end there.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ponder Stuff
Jump 2 Beacon
Deepwater Hooligans
#494 - 2012-07-20 13:52:57 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:




I find it hilarious how one side constantly complains about there being no conflict, no fighting, just NAPs. Then they go and do absolutely nothing about it but whine on the forums. Meanwhile the other side gets people in ships, forms up, and goes kick somebody's ass. What does the side asking for more fights do? Ah right, they dock up and keep whining about there being no fights and 0.0 being stagnant.[/quote]


I think the point is fun fights here pal, fights that require more than pressing fire when told...... your killboard suggests you love your allaince warfare and thas fine but 230people on one tengu mail is pretty fail.
I note you have over a thousand kills but no killpoints..... why do you think this is.....

we dont go join big allainces because once you can solo and small gang pvp big allaince stuff is really boring... its takes no skills only noobs with guns and spare time and in some cases a good fc.

A good exaple of how fail big alliance warfare is in relation to smaller gang experts is what rooks and kings did to FA recently.
FIGHT
there is more to pvp than you think so learn about all of pvp before assuming all pvp pilots are as fail as you.
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#495 - 2012-07-20 13:59:25 UTC
Crunchmeister wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
YES LET'S GO FOR DEPLETING MOONS BECAUSE SCANNING MOONS IS SO MUCH FUN FOO DIGGITY LET'S DO THIS ****


EvilweaselSA wrote:
If you try to make moon minerals move around and keep that scanning interface im kidnapping you and making you scan an entire region before letting you go


Must agree with this. The current moon scanning systems is .... well... utter garbage. If that could be made better, then scanning moons for new resources would be an option. Under the current scanning system, not so much.


Maybe they should just make it as easy as when you look at a planet resources in "planet view mode". No probing required. But dont make moon minerals move around. Just scatter it evenly across the galaxy and make it deplete/increase (on the same moon) the same way as normal resources work on planets. Just a though...
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#496 - 2012-07-20 14:03:39 UTC
Ponder Stuff wrote:

I think the point is fun fights here pal, fights that require more than pressing fire when told...... your killboard suggests you love your allaince warfare and thas fine but 230people on one tengu mail is pretty fail.
I note you have over a thousand kills but no killpoints..... why do you think this is.....

we dont go join big allainces because once you can solo and small gang pvp big allaince stuff is really boring... its takes no skills only noobs with guns and spare time and in some cases a good fc.

A good exaple of how fail big alliance warfare is in relation to smaller gang experts is what rooks and kings did to FA recently.
FIGHT
there is more to pvp than you think so learn about all of pvp before assuming all pvp pilots are as fail as you.


Ahaha my irony meter just exploded
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#497 - 2012-07-20 14:07:46 UTC
move all the tech to omist and we'll still pile into that ****** region

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#498 - 2012-07-20 14:10:08 UTC
Serious post

The current moon distribution is fine you just need to completely scrap T2 production as is and redo it so there is some vague sort of value assigned based on the rarity.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#499 - 2012-07-20 14:12:30 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Little Fistter wrote:

Right now you are giving the dominant alliances all the power.


Excuse me little...eh..man..


They didn't give us anything. We took it from the 65,000 player coalition that held it before us then we turned it into something more than what they were doing with it.

Sorry that it doesn't fit your jaded view of reality but thats actually what happened with it. Nobody was given anything...


one could say that the dominant alliances were not dominant alliances until they took those things


timeline

PL allies with drone peeps and raiden to take out the nothern coalition...

they then set thier eyes on cfc but that fails HARD!

Eventually when it looks like raiden and friends cant hold thier space...

PL get an offer fro CFC saying we will let you keep your Tech moons if you play nice and fight for us...

so yeah... no one gave you tech PL... but you are now a member of the cfc and mittenz allowed you to keep them...

so admit it if you step out of line you loose your tech and loose your reinbursement program and then fighting becomes an actual risky adventure...

as a first step alchemy is a good one...

i am more interested in how they are going to rebalance tech II production costs... thats going to be the real Tech nerf...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#500 - 2012-07-20 14:13:19 UTC
Random Majere wrote:

Maybe they should just make it as easy as when you look at a planet resources in "planet view mode". No probing required. But dont make moon minerals move around. Just scatter it evenly across the galaxy and make it deplete/increase (on the same moon) the same way as normal resources work on planets. Just a though...


There's a much easier way: revert to pre-dominion moons. P/D are spread throughout the galaxy. Can't cartel it, everyone has some - but there's rich regions and poor regions.