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A new frontier - Classic 0.0

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Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#41 - 2012-07-18 15:57:10 UTC
"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:

A cluster of similar size to New Eden"

I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.

Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-07-18 16:31:16 UTC
Lharanai wrote:
"I propose a new starcluster in Eve, separate from New Eden and Wormhole space:

A cluster of similar size to New Eden"

I really like your idea....but I see one problem as I have to admit "Malcanis Law" seems to be the only constant in the development of EVE. In my opinion ONE new cluster would not work because the big blocks would move in within hours. But maybe if you add hundreds of tiny deadspace clusters.....wait this is BS....I still like your Idea but you are fighting symptoms not the illness by itself....the problem is not new space....fly around in null, its empty, the problem is the projection of force via jumpbridges which makes null small.

Instead of creating new space to escape the imbalance I would prefer if CCP would work on the imbalance. To make that clear I do not want to get rid of SC or Jumpbridge capabilities, but their should be more restrictions to JB in regard of time, nullsec IS large and it should not be POSSIBLE (I do not use the term EASY here) to travel through is fast as you can atm (depending on adequate logistics).


Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.

As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.

I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start.
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#43 - 2012-07-18 20:08:10 UTC
"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."

100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems.

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-07-18 21:03:32 UTC
Jafit wrote:
I don't think it's hypocritical, it's more self-critical. I posted on my main to demonstrate that even those belonging to entities that are currently 'winning' nullsec can still recognise that there's something wrong with the game.

I've only been in nullsec for a few months, but I'm pretty much there to stay and I can agree with this perspective.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-07-18 21:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
Lharanai wrote:
"I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start."

100% agreement with you here, in regard of gimping JB I do NOT mean to reduce the range or make them more expensive I was literally speaking about TIME so that it is not an instant transport. In regard of Titan chains....reduce the usability to Blackops :). I really like your Ideas but when I look at nullsec and how empty most of the systems are I cannot believe that adding space would really solve problems.


Nullsec was mostly empty long before supercaps and jumpbridges, because most nullsec systems are worthless and provide anomalies that generate income that's in line with level 1/2 missions in highsec. Everyone is sitting at the regional market hub or in the handful of decent ratting systems. All the 'empty' systems are actually probably stuffed with POSes mining R32 or R64 moon minerals which actually allow you to pay the bills for all your infrastructure.

I don't think that adding an arbitrary timesink to using JBs or titan bridges is going to do anything but annoy people.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-07-18 23:55:58 UTC
Jafit wrote:

Established power blocs couldn't rush in and claim it all because it would only be accessible through unstable wormholes. It's the same reason large power blocs haven't rushed in and claimed all of W-space either, it's simply not feasible. A lot of them do have a presence in W-space, but they definitely can't bring their power to bear from the other side of a wormhole that spawns randomly around the universe. The same logistical challenges and restrictions should hopefully limit their influence in a new starcluster.

As for your ideas, let me tell you about the time I was in a fleet that got a titan bridge chain from Curse to Tenerifis for a fight, with no JBs involved. If you gimp JBs (again) you make it so only titan owners can force-project, whereas with JBs any level of alliance can move around and defend their own territory.

I don't know how to undo the damage caused by introducing supercaps, all I know is that I don't like them and it'd be easier to just have a fresh start.


So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?

I agree with the premise behind your proposal, but I would rather see changes to the current mechanics of EvE here and now - which I agree, are unlikely - than try and add something in, which may end up being as easily exploited as the current supercap/Sov aspects of the game.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#47 - 2012-07-19 04:51:58 UTC
Clearly there is a problem when members of PL, Goons, and TEST all agree that additional space is needed, and that blobs with supercap proliferation aren't fun gameplay.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-07-19 10:11:15 UTC
Those of you who seem to insist JBs are a huge power projection tool, regularly used to project power from one end of the eve universe to the other: you're wrong.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-07-19 11:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
Katie Frost wrote:
So, you are saying that a power bloc hosting 10,000 members and owning vast areas of 0.0... the architects of high-sec ganking, high-sec trade hub raids and other interesting shenanigans, would not be able to dedicate but a fraction of their manpower to find the appropriate wormhole(s) and deploy, oh idk... 1000 drakes in this new region, if not just to screw with this new addition to EvE?


Closer to 30,000 actually.

It really depends on how the wormhole connections to the new frontier cluster were to work in terms of their maximum allowable jump mass, total allowable mass, and where they spawn.

For example the wormhole connections to the new cluster spawned in highsec and lowsec might only be big enough to let through a few cruisers or battlecruisers, and holes spawned in nullsec could only big enough to let through a few battleships. You could have to go all the way through w-space and find a C6 wormhole leading to the new frontier regions that would spawn a wormhole big enough to let a Drake blob through. Afaik from current wormhole mass limits, I'd estimate that at best you'd only have enough mass to allow a modest 200 man Drake blob through, and that'd take a lot of effort.

The CFC does simple tactics, it's not good at complicated things en-mass. Leading a Drake blob on a pilgrimage through several wormhole systems to the new starcluster would be akin to the Israelites wandering the desert for 40 years, except DaBigRedBoat is Moses, and he won't give you the warp-in on the next wormhole until everyone in the fleet follows him on Twitter.
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-07-20 04:49:28 UTC
New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#51 - 2012-07-20 05:15:18 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:

So basically a 2nd server where things aren't FUBAR.

Pessimistic rant below. Don't read if you don't want to read pessimism.

The truth is that every great MMOPG was actually an interation of the preceeding MMOPG. The next developer looks back and sees all the mistakes of its predecessors, corrects or throws away what was bad, and keeps and expands what was good. The new product is a better game and usually more successful that the last.

Some would say that CCP is trying to do that with their expansions, but a problem is that some of the mistakes of the game are so big and have been in for so long that CCP doesn't have the gumption to make the big, core rage-quit changes that would be needed. For example, CCP should probably completely erase supercapitals from the game as a mistake. Its fears the rage-quits of players, that spent thousands of hours skilling, too much to do so however.

The result are three possibilities
1) we hope that someone in CCP has the gaul to withstand the rage-quits and make the needed slashes completely reversing the mistakes of the past...not likely at this point.
2) we hope that a competitor developer surfaces that has just as much graphical expertise (Eve's graphics are the best in the world IMHO) and makes an alternative to Eve with lessons learned from Eve's mistakes... no one even on the horizon atm.
3) CCP snails along with tweaks that don't really make a difference and hopes that after 10 more years of thousands of perpetual tweaks they somehow eventually arrive to where they initially intended... where we are at now.

yk


Sigh. If there was ever anything that CCP needed to be :fearless: about, it's removing fast-travel from EVE. Well, and getting rid of microtransactions. Both are essential, and both are sadly very unlikely. Makes me wanna cry a little.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#52 - 2012-07-20 05:25:57 UTC
Jafit wrote:
without supercaps.


This is the important part. The extra systems part is just the icing. EVE changed for the worse when Red Moon Rising hit. Sad

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Theta Eridani
The Destined
#53 - 2012-07-20 06:51:01 UTC
Veinnail wrote:
New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD

+1
Samuella IV
#54 - 2012-07-20 06:54:33 UTC
Veinnail wrote:
New regions of space on the other side of wormholes, PERIOD

+1
MintyRoadkill
Vulture Enterprises
OnlyFleets.
#55 - 2012-07-24 02:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: MintyRoadkill
I disagree that we need another 5,000 star cluster, but i think that the space in the Northeast part of the map should be filled in a bit more, the area past Jove Space, hopefully allowing another Powerbloc to form (perhaps around S2N as the leader, or some other random mid-large size alliance) giving the current 0.0 landscape more varied "nations." The biggest problem with the powerblocs now is that the two biggest alliance are on the same side. Or, at least, were.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#56 - 2012-07-25 14:20:56 UTC
Manar Detri wrote:
Kyle Ward wrote:
Sweet Baby Jesus add another 5000 systems?! Do you actually want to see another human being again...?


I bet he's a miner!

On a serious note, there was sometime ago a suggestion of creating systems that were reachable through wormhole space only. In small scale these kind of regions or systems would propably be fun, but on top of that there'd really need to be a lot of entry points from wormhole space, and the regions/systems would really need to be easily maneuverable rather than eaasily defendable.


I like this idea soooooooo much!

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Obam Usan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-07-26 06:04:52 UTC
good idea, good points raised, but maybe next time OP could try to come off a little less mad
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