EVE General Discussion

It's the biggest problem in Eve, primordial idiots unable to evolve or think by themselves.

Well if clones are such an ISK sink, maybe it's time to remove insurance to remove a fountain.

Worry less about the kitchen plumbing and more about a way to encourage players to be willing to take a loss in PvP. If someone has to drop 50 million for a clone just to PvP, I don't blame him for turning to alternate methods to obtain a sense of fun and accomplishment. So focusing on the problem at hand, nothing else, what is the logical solution to removing a player's roadblock to more PvP?

I am with Marlona on this one, I think the clone costs serve as a rather artificial barrier further discouraging the higher sp chars from pvp. Not really a good thing. Also, above certain (say, battleship + basic market skills) threshold, the higher sp chars don't really have greater isk generating potential. There is however also a counterargument, lowering clone costs would significantly increase power projection via death clone jumping.

On a slightly related note, I think the jump clone timer could be lowered to 23 or 22 hours.

Honestly I'd like to see the clone cost substantially reduced or eliminated. I'd also like toe see all training implants removed and a flat 5 points added to every attribute.

Replace learning implants with combat implants that would give a benefit worth of risking them rather than simply being a impediment to having fun.

All the Risk this ISK sink that nonsense is well.. nonsense. The fact is that if an expensive clone is causing someone to not PVP then it's not acting as an isk sink at all because for it to be a sink it has to actually be spent and if you don't go into risky situations because of that disincentive then the isk sink effect is the same as if the clone cost didn't exist at all.

The people who oppose such a change are the same short sited dipshit's who complain about risk aversion encouraging blobbing and carebearism. It's the same stupid mentality that leads to people thinking that if L4 missions were moved to low sec only that there would be a sudden influx of stupid carebear's flying faction fit pirate battleships into low sec (isn't going to happen).

An activity is only a risk if people actually engage in it. The only real result that comes from expensive clones is that high sp players are more risk averse. they're less likely to engage in PVP period and when they do they're going to more likely to blob and select fights where they face little if any challenge.

Ships are a good thing to risk. It's something an individual player can control, you can risk anything from a few hundred thousand to well a hell of a lot depending on what you take out into combat. Want to be reckless and just go hop on anything and everything, grab a Rifter with T1 modules and knock yourself out. Want to risk big and increase your chance of victory grab that officer fit faction ship and tear it up.

Clones on the other hand are not mitigated by player choice you can't say screw it I want to go on a suicide roam unless you've ensured that you've got the cost of a new clone in the bank otherwise you'd best stay docked until you can get some more isk. I'd far rather that isk be spent on ships and modules that I could blow up than sit idle in someone's wallet because they're unwilling to risk their clone.

Implants aren't quite as bad, but coupled with the 24hr Jump Clone timer create a major disincentive to taking risk. Implants in particular affect lower skill point players (read newer) since they have more limited options and thus the most driving desire for new skills as quickly as possible. So low SP players have the most (need/desire) for high value learning implants but generally fewer options to pay for them thus less likely to actually go out and have fun and more likely to sit around waiting for skills to train. Back when I had a couple million SP and new skills opened up new items and opportunities rapidly I cared far more about my skill point acquisition speed than I do now with 60mil sp and the ability to fly pretty much everything I want competently and most skills take weeks to train. I tend to roll with a couple +4s (if I can find them) or +3s if I can't nowadays but I used to live in high sec in a +5 clone and the hunger for more sp/options coupled with the 24hr JC timer kept me screwing about in high sec much longer than if that hadn't been a concern.

This insistence on meaningless disincentives to risk taking leads to most of the ill that people complain the about in this game, Blobbing, ganking, lack of targets, clinging to high sec, you name a complaint odds are you can trace the bulk of it it back to silly mechanics like clone costs and learning implants. Sure you can't make someone who's completely risk averse change their behavior but you can shift those on the margins. I know I'd have been (hell would be) far more reckless if I didn't have to keep those two concerns in mind.

Eliminate both, if you must have an idiot test to force people through, make the cost equivalent to that required to change home stations or install jump clones that way they still risk SP if they forget to update their clone and we can laugh that much more at them since they really didn't have an excuse. Replace learning implants with combat implants and a flat 5 point increase to all attributes and encourage more players to go into situations their pods aren't likely to survive earlier and more often. .

/facepalm

Ah, you need the Amarrian Skill Point Diet. You game runs on 'light' electrons that reduce you skill point total.

Quit whining about 45 mil "cover charge" OP.

Isn't this game suppose to be risk vs reward? Aren't you gaining any benefits from your high SP character over a lower SP character? Shouldn't it then be a greater risk for you? Come on.

What's next? x amount cover charge to pvp since I have to buy a ship. It's not fair that I have to pay more for a better ship when newbs in rifters are running around pvping for so cheap.

That may be taking your thought to a ridiculous extreme but you get the point. Or at least I hope you do.

Let me tell you about playing this game for 7 years, yet raising 45 million ISK is a problem for me

Like losing your ship and implants and being displaced to wherever you set your clone up?



I still want to know what kind of isk sink we're talking about here. According to Dotlan, there were 156,814 podkills in June. For grade omicron clones with 42.2 million SPs kept, the cost of all those pods would be 737 billion isk. Seems like a lot, but when you consider that it amounts to just over a billion isk per hour, that's the equivalent of maybe 20 L4 mission runners in highsec. A single agent probably pays more in a month than is consumed by pod replacement. it is a tiny drop in the bucket that is Eve's economy.