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45 million ISK cover charge to PvP...
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Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-07-18 07:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Marconus Orion
Granted there are not that many, but more and more players are breaking into that realm of what it cost to keep your clone up to date with the skill points you have.

Yes I know there will be players who chime in with sage words like:
"With that many skill points you should be rolling in katrillions of iskies!!!!"
or
"If you are losing your pod you are doing it wrong!!!!... wait you're in null/wormholes?...what do you mean bubbles???"
or my personal favorite
"It is mechanics like those that make sure this game remains HARD CORE and L33TZOR compared to other games, why you dying anyways? BRING FRIENDS and blob more!"

My questions are:
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat?
2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.
3) This question only CCP can really answer or unless the exact statistics have been released before. Is there more ISK removed from clone upgrade costs or more ISK added from ship insurance?

EDIT: Added question #3, but perhaps someone could help me word that better if they know what I am talking about. Straight
RectumRanger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-07-18 07:52:43 UTC
If you can afford to pvp you can afford a clone.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#3 - 2012-07-18 07:53:14 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Granted there are not that many, but more and more players are breaking into that realm of what it cost to keep your clone up to date with the skill points you have.

Yes I know there will be players who chime in with sage words like:
"With that many skill points you should be rolling in katrillions of iskies!!!!"
or
"If you are losing your pod you are doing it wrong!!!!... wait your in null/wormholes?...what do you mean bubbles???"
or my personal favorite
"It is mechanics like those that make sure this game remains HARD CORE and L33TZOR compared to other games, why you dying anyways? BRING FRIENDS and blob more!"

My questions are:
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat?
2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.


1. Neither, see your first quoted point as to why.
2. Would remove the risk of pew pew. If i wanted no risk gameplay id go play WoW
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#4 - 2012-07-18 07:53:44 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Granted there are not that many, but more and more players are breaking into that realm of what it cost to keep your clone up to date with the skill points you have.

Yes I know there will be players who chime in with sage words like:
"With that many skill points you should be rolling in katrillions of iskies!!!!"
or
"If you are losing your pod you are doing it wrong!!!!... wait you're in null/wormholes?...what do you mean bubbles???"
or my personal favorite
"It is mechanics like those that make sure this game remains HARD CORE and L33TZOR compared to other games, why you dying anyways? BRING FRIENDS and blob more!"

My questions are:
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat?
2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.


Who podded you?
Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA Real men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-18 07:58:17 UTC
I like it. After a certain point it makes the choice to not train skills a reasonable one. Do you want a character that can fly all four races, subcaps, caps, do industry, mine, explore, slice, dice, and make sandwiches? Sure, but your pod is going to cost you. Do you want a cheaper clone? Alright, pick the skills you want. It's not like it's too restrictive - even a clone the price of a Rifter can store enough SP to fly pretty much all subcaps in the game.
Viscount Hood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-07-18 08:01:40 UTC
Its a bit of a pain to get a clone as much as that but then luckily I don't get podded too often.
PvP has always been expensive....not that I would know about it anyway.
Pipa Porto
#7 - 2012-07-18 08:01:50 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:

My questions are:
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat?
2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.


1. Generally more reluctant (especially with fun suicidal roams).

2. An isk sink would disappear, and one advantage of specialized combat alts would disappear. People might be more likely to engage in riskier PvP, where currently your pod might cost more than your ship (even before learning implants*).

*Another thing worth looking at.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alara IonStorm
#8 - 2012-07-18 08:02:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Yeah it is stupid. Incredibly stupid mechanic.

But its an ISK Sink. Honestly get rid of both Insurance (Over 3 Month olds) and Clone costs to balance each other out.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#9 - 2012-07-18 08:07:07 UTC
Maybe an option to forget skills?

Havnt thought much about it so dunno what the consequences would be.

Personally i think the way it is now works. As previously stated, good ISK sink and we definitely need more ISK sinks in this game.
Benjamin Eastwood
#10 - 2012-07-18 08:12:57 UTC
Train a specialized alt, use your main as the breadwinner. Problem solved.

"Endless ISK, the sinews of war"
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#11 - 2012-07-18 08:17:58 UTC
EVE is full of outdated and strange ideas and it will be like this forever.

Meanwhile you can sell this pilot, purchase more specialized with less expensive clone.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#12 - 2012-07-18 08:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis
Honestly yeah it gets a bit interesting. With 2 toons around the 100mil SP mark and counting its just not worth putting them into situations where they are instantly primaried or killed en masse. Each clone at that point and above is worth the cost of a t2 frig now. In low or high sec warfare theres no concern as you can almost always get your pod out. WHs or Null and its just an added expense and more worth training/buying a low SP toon to go on roams. IVe done a few of the RvB Ganknights as well with my other toons instead of the main ones so killboards look like crap as people will not engage older toons, will follow them around, know them in game or primary them often. To counter this you have to go "dark" and use different unknown toons with younger ages and way less SP.

Tbh I think the loss of implants is more than enough. As though cost isnt the main reason its just annoying and I think there are better ways to implement isk sinks than clones.

So yeah for some toons it really DOES negate the desire to get into any combat at all. Especially solo stuff as I enjoy that way more than large fleets. I despise monkey pushing fleet comm stuff. Always have and its only gotten worse as Ive aged.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-07-18 08:54:21 UTC
PvP in low sec. U hardly loose your pod there.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-07-18 11:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
I think this mechanics pretty daft. It assumes that high sp characters are rich and discourages any who aren't from using their sp.

My pods only 4mil so I have no reason to be butthurt over this either.

edit- same as below. I think its a good sink but scales too harshly at the upper end.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#15 - 2012-07-18 11:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
I'm no fan of making things easy or cost free but CCP has to realise that the game has been out for 9 years now and that older players would also love clowning around in rifters for the fun of it. These high clone costs effectively forces them into expensive ships, blobs and risk free pvp.

Not smart game design.

- edit -

I'm NOT advocating removal of clone costs, just making it scale better at higher SP.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-07-18 11:33:29 UTC
1. From my perspective, neither.
2. It'll remove one isk sink currently in place and in which works perfectly fine.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-18 12:20:02 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
I'm no fan of making things easy or cost free but CCP has to realise that the game has been out for 9 years now and that older players would also love clowning around in rifters for the fun of it. These high clone costs effectively forces them into expensive ships, blobs and risk free pvp.


It takes a week to roll an alt to be able to clown around in a Rifter. What's a week for you when you've been playing for 9 years?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#18 - 2012-07-18 12:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: War Kitten
Marconus Orion wrote:
Granted there are not that many, but more and more players are breaking into that realm of what it cost to keep your clone up to date with the skill points you have.

Yes I know there will be players who chime in with sage words like:
"With that many skill points you should be rolling in katrillions of iskies!!!!"
or
"If you are losing your pod you are doing it wrong!!!!... wait you're in null/wormholes?...what do you mean bubbles???"
or my personal favorite
"It is mechanics like those that make sure this game remains HARD CORE and L33TZOR compared to other games, why you dying anyways? BRING FRIENDS and blob more!"

My questions are:
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat?
2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.


I see two solutions to your problem:

1) Make more isk
2) Suck less at PvP

If you want PvP without any risk or meaning, go play battlefield.

To answer your questions:

1) Yes, both
2) The forums would be clogged with even more threads about how Eve is going soft, and 0.42% more people would claim this as an excuse to ragequit.**

Edit:
** - but only 3 would actually follow through.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
S1euth
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-07-18 12:41:31 UTC
Join a corp that reimburses you for pod losses if they are impacting you this much.
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-07-18 12:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cede Forster
1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more (A) or become more reluctant to engage in combat (B)?

CCP has stated before that they carefully calculated the encouragement/discouragement coefficant of "clone cost" to "pew pew fun" to make sure the rising costs of clones is exactly equivalent to the increased fun "pew pew" brings.
Unless you put SP in anything but combat, in which case they want you to be miserable and die painfully.

2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change.

Thousand of posts that CCP is catering to the "old bitter vets" ?
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