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Inferno: Is The Rifter Terrible Now?
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Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#1 - 2012-07-17 11:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Obviously the Incursus, Merlin and Punisher have been changed substantially. Some believe the Rifter is outclassed completely.

So! Is there any Rifter setup capable of engaging the aforementioned frigates effectively? I'm interested in an answer and I think it may be helpful to the Rifter enthusiast out there.

What solutions have you come up with to increase the viability of the Rifter compared to the Incursus, Punisher and Merlin. Or! Is the Rifter just terrible now?

I'll start this off with what I've come up with v0v:


Rifter (140 damage per second, 4,500 effective Hit-points)
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

Or

Rifter (130 damage per second, 5,500 effective Hit-points)
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I


- end of transmission

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2012-07-17 12:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Major Killz wrote:

So! Is there any Rifter setup capable of engaging the aforementioned frigates effectively?

Or! Is the Rifter just terrible now?

That is not what makes a ship good or bad. You should be asking how does the Rifter effect a battle over all, not how good is it in tournament style 1v1 fights.

Answer, it is faster, harder to hit and quicker to lock.

The Punisher can not fit webs with tackle and prop and it still often loses to higher tracking Rifters. The Merlin / Incursus can not fit a Nos which means they lose gang tackle on ships with Neuts where the Rifter does not. Rifter can Arty Kite with its tracking or use its speed to hang out at the edge of Web Range where there guns can not hit. It has lots of uses and options but is not the best at everything anymore.

Balance does not mean how does it fair in 1v1 Online. Gallente should be better in a brawl fight, Minmatar should be better getting there and escaping.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#3 - 2012-07-17 13:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Tl,dr

I have no interest in whether things are or not balanced (don't care). I'm interested in setups by those who have adapted to these new changes. Nothing more nothing less. Everything else is meh! This is about setups...

So post those setups gentlemen.


- end of transmission

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2012-07-17 13:23:46 UTC
Friendly reminder - the new Slasher, Atron, Condor, and Executioner are rolling out soon. They all have 10 slots and a 80% less cap useage on points role bonus. The tormentor is also being upgraded to three turret slots.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#5 - 2012-07-17 13:31:21 UTC
To the point- I've adapted by flying an Ion Merlin with one MASB and a web and point. Frigate to frigate it puts the rifter to shame.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-07-17 13:41:44 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Friendly reminder - the new Slasher, Atron, Condor, and Executioner are rolling out soon. They all have 10 slots and a 80% less cap useage on points role bonus. The tormentor is also being upgraded to three turret slots.


Is this on SiSi yet? Have you tried them?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2012-07-17 13:46:13 UTC
Yes and no.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2012-07-17 13:52:35 UTC
If by "terrible" you mean the fact that choosing the Rifter over another T1 frig getting you 90% of the way to a win (ie. a slam-dunk) no longer applies .. then yes, it is quite atrocious .. terrible is too weak a word to describe it's 'mediocrity' Smile.

Just wait until next summer when the frigate balance pass is complete, that is when we all get grey hair trying to decide which of the :awesomes: (if you like Da Frig that is) we should undock in ...
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2012-07-17 14:05:55 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Tl,dr

I have no interest in whether things are or not balanced (don't care). I'm interested in setups by those who have adapted to these new changes. Nothing more nothing less. Everything else is meh! This is about setups...

So post those setups gentlemen.


- end of transmission


No need to be an ass.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#10 - 2012-07-17 14:18:24 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Major Killz wrote:

So! Is there any Rifter setup capable of engaging the aforementioned frigates effectively?

Or! Is the Rifter just terrible now?

That is not what makes a ship good or bad. You should be asking how does the Rifter effect a battle over all, not how good is it in tournament style 1v1 fights.

Answer, it is faster, harder to hit and quicker to lock.

The Punisher can not fit webs with tackle and prop and it still often loses to higher tracking Rifters. The Merlin / Incursus can not fit a Nos which means they lose gang tackle on ships with Neuts where the Rifter does not. Rifter can Arty Kite with its tracking or use its speed to hang out at the edge of Web Range where there guns can not hit. It has lots of uses and options but is not the best at everything anymore.

Balance does not mean how does it fair in 1v1 Online. Gallente should be better in a brawl fight, Minmatar should be better getting there and escaping.

so you sayin that the rifter is a better tackling frig than the others 3?
but the point of this newly balanced frigs is to brawl not tackle, for that we are gonna get the new teckling T1 frigs.
Alara IonStorm
#11 - 2012-07-17 14:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
To mare wrote:

so you sayin that

Why is it that posts that start with follow up with a recap that is always mistaken.
To mare wrote:

the rifter is a better tackling frig than the others 3? but the point of this newly balanced frigs is to brawl not tackle, for that we are gonna get the new teckling T1 frigs.

Don't think so 1 dimensionally. Speed matters in a brawl and it matters in engaging in getting in range for a brawl. So does Nuets and Nos and tracking.

Those tackling Frigates may be quicker but what if you didn't need that speed but needed tank and nos, these Tackle Frigates don't have a tracking bonus either which makes it harder to kill Drones. Who said they were built solely for brawling. They are general combat Frigates with good all around stats. Maybe other Frigates have different stats that serve it better in a close range slug fest but if that was all there is to combat Gallente would be the only race flown.

What is more the Rifter has many desirable stats besides just Tank and DPS like range, selectable damage types, cap free weapons, smaller signature rad. If you can't use all that to your advantage in a fight... well... Sad
To mare
Advanced Technology
#12 - 2012-07-17 14:57:59 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

What is more the Rifter has many desirable stats besides just Tank and DPS like range, selectable damage types, cap free weapons, smaller signature rad. If you can't use all that to your advantage in a fight... well... Sad

well many of those advantages are rather useless in what is a T1 frig fight the 90% of the time.
the only advantage the rifter still hold is cap free weapon and a neut (fitting is a ***** if you want the neut) and given that you need to give time to the neut to work and its kind of hard when ships like merlin and incursus almost do double of your dps.
imho the rifter should get a rof bonus instead of a damage like all the T1 minmatar combat ship OR its fitting stats adjusted to resemble the stats of the other rebalanced ships
Alara IonStorm
#13 - 2012-07-17 15:29:48 UTC
To mare wrote:

well many of those advantages are rather useless in what is a T1 frig fight the 90% of the time.

Lol
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-07-17 15:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Branko
Don't use the Rifter for T1 frig fighting; it's only real advantages come to play vs larger ships which you cannot kill unless they are very new and inexperienced anyway. If you can maybe make some arty fit, but idk, I've tried that only once in my eve time.

For maybe a gang attacking larger ships then yes Rifter is still a very good choice with some advantages over other t1 frigs.
ABRACADABSTRACTART
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-07-17 16:18:50 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Tl,dr

I have no interest in whether things are or not balanced (don't care). I'm interested in setups by those who have adapted to these new changes. Nothing more nothing less. Everything else is meh! This is about setups...

So post those setups gentlemen.


- end of transmission


No need to be an ass.

he was responding to a know-it-all. you have to be firm with those kind of people. just like you have to tell people who appoint themselves thread monitor to STFU. why did you even bother posting? STFU
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-07-17 20:17:27 UTC
I've not tried it yet, but, for fighting the new frigs, here you go:

Quote:

[Rifter, Rifter fit]

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Experimental Energized Thermic Membrane I
Experimental Energized Kinetic Membrane I

Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I



The entire idea being that the spiffy new ships do not have any tracking bonuses while the rifter does, and can still do 1k/s with a plate. In addition, TDs are almost always useful, so your not 'wasting' a slot.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-17 20:31:56 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Friendly reminder - the new Slasher, Atron, Condor, and Executioner are rolling out soon. They all have 10 slots and a 80% less cap useage on points role bonus. The tormentor is also being upgraded to three turret slots.


Awesome...

And, I guess I'll be rolling out the old Executioner again soon.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#18 - 2012-07-17 20:33:51 UTC
Ezra Tair wrote:
I've not tried it yet, but, for fighting the new frigs, here you go:

Quote:

[Rifter, Rifter fit]

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Experimental Energized Thermic Membrane I
Experimental Energized Kinetic Membrane I

Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I



The entire idea being that the spiffy new ships do not have any tracking bonuses while the rifter does, and can still do 1k/s with a plate. In addition, TDs are almost always useful, so your not 'wasting' a slot.


Well thanks! From the lack of setups been thrown out. It seems the Rifter isn't even on par with some of the newly changed frigates anymore. There aren't much setups left for the Rifter that are effective vers these frigates.

I do know the shield setup I posted is effective when used against a dual armor repair Incursus. Otherwise, good luck! I'm going start flying the Rifter with this character to come to a solid conclusion.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-07-17 20:37:24 UTC
Rifter is still fine as winmatar ships tend to be. The only change is that its no longer the best in every role, hooray for diversity and possibility to fly something else then just rifters.

Waiting for the next round of rebalanced ships so much ... Most of the ships ingame are so terribad they aint worth touching at all. Diversity in ship and role choises ... its really really good !
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-07-17 20:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Traejun DiSanctis
Major Killz wrote:
Ezra Tair wrote:
I've not tried it yet, but, for fighting the new frigs, here you go:

Quote:

[Rifter, Rifter fit]

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Experimental Energized Thermic Membrane I
Experimental Energized Kinetic Membrane I

Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I


The entire idea being that the spiffy new ships do not have any tracking bonuses while the rifter does, and can still do 1k/s with a plate. In addition, TDs are almost always useful, so your not 'wasting' a slot.


Well thanks! From the lack of setups been thrown out. It seems the Rifter isn't even on par with some of the newly changed frigates anymore. There aren't much setups left for the Rifter that are effective vers these frigates.

I do know the shield setup I posted is effective when used against a dual armor repair Incursus. Otherwise, good luck! I'm going start flying the Rifter with this character to come to a solid conclusion.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Rifter. 3x 200mm AC II + Vamp/Neut, MWD and either shield or armor tanked. I've been flying a SASB fitted Rifter lately. Working fairly well.

Although I will openly admit that my Merlin is better now. A few months ago, my Rifter was my primary.


Cedo Nulli wrote:
Most of the ships ingame are so terribad they aint worth touching at all. Diversity in ship and role choises ... its really really good !


Agreed on the last bit.

I take exception to the part about most ships being "terribad". It's not that most ships are bad, it's that they are just not set up well for PvP. That tends to be the case with most T1 Cruiser hulls, it seems. As for the frigates, they fill clearly defined roles now, where they didn't before. So every race has 3 or so frigate hulls that work well for PvP - 1 or 2 combat and 1 EWAR/Tackler.

As a primarily Caldari/Minmatar pilot, I am pleased with the Merlin and Rifter as my brawler frigates. Love the Griffin as my jammer. And I adore my LML Kestrel for kiting.
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