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Need advice on legal issue pertaining to Slavery within the Empire. Please help!

Author
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-07-17 07:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaki Mai
I'm looking for contacts within the Empire and the Kingdom, specifically anyone who understands the legal position regarding freeing slaves and anyone with contacts within the Theology Council, Ministry of Internal Order and the Civic Court.

Some of you may have seen me in the Summit but most of you won't have. I live a fairly low-profile life, I'm an independent pilot, I'm not part of one of the newsworthy corporations and my private life has largely stayed private. I try not to foster grudges.

Recently the above mentioned organisations have been mounting a low-visibility campaign to punish me for certain viewpoints that I have expressed regarding the state of the institution of Slavery within the Empire. I'm not a radical Abolitionist, but more and more frequently I have found myself publicly expressing the opinion that Holders who do not meet the religious obligations of their status should no longer be allowed to keep Slaves and that any Slaves who are being kept for solely economic or prestige purposes should immediately be freed at the Holders expense to the slave's choice of either the Federation or the Republic.

Finding myself unable to justify the traditional practice of including slaves amongst the crew of my ships, I was also morally unable to sell them to a slave broker, for fear that they should end up in thrall to an abusive Holder of the type I described above. Like most of you, I am more than wealthy enough to maintain a few thousand slaves in comfort, but as a non-Holder I am legally unable to own Slaves that are not crewing my ships. The only solution I could find was to ship my Slaves to the nearest Federation system, where they were seized by the authorities and freed.

My background is in trading, my parents are still legally subordinate to their Liege Lord, a Holder who runs trading concerns based on Afnakat VI and who manages a meaningful piece of the trade that flows between the Kingdom and the Empire. This man is an arch-traditionalist and has taken my statements on the abuse of Holder status very personally. He has managed to convince the authorities that my actions constitute illegal freeing of slaves and that I have acted in a way that brings the Empire into disrepute.

My every interaction with Amarrian bureaucracy is now a living hell. I cannot gain the necessary permissions to even leave the Capsuleer portion of orbitals around Empire worlds, let alone gain access to the planets below! Any permit or piece of paperwork that I need is routinely denied, lost or referred to committee. I have been placed onto some sort of a watchlist for illegal slave traders and my ships are searched with monotonous regularity at gates.

Until this blows over I have been forced to relocate to Gallente space, I'm an effective exile in my home Empire! Any advice on how to handle or resolve this situation would be gratefully recieved!
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#2 - 2012-07-17 11:39:41 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Like most of you, I am more than wealthy enough to maintain a few thousand slaves in comfort, but as a non-Holder I am legally unable to own Slaves that are not crewing my ships.

Ms. Mai,

as far as I know it shouldn’t be a huge problem to possess slaves as a commoner, especially a capsuleer, in the Kingdom, but since you pointed out that you’ve problems with your lord on Afnakat IV—and rightly so!—it doesn’t surprise me that you have problems with the authorities. I suggest you apologise to him immediately. Be reminded:

As Garrulor rules the skies; as Frisceas rules the sea;
As Emperor rules Holder; as Holder rules Serf;
Yet all under Heaven serve Me;
So shall Amarr rule the worlds of the Heavens.
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 3.19 - 3.21

Your actions, it seems to me, are not only illegal, but morally corrupt and maybe even treasonous. If you feel obliged to the aim of salvation for your slaves dropping them at random systems in the Federation is hardly an option.

I know that Lord Ran'shad of the Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment is in need of workforce and would do his very best to spiritually care for anyone.

Odelya d’Hanguest
Exalted Cherry Blossom in the Sacred Flower Garden
Levona Succuboso
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#3 - 2012-07-17 12:01:36 UTC
Here at Heathen Legion's legal affairs department we specialize in many aspects of Imperial law including criminal defense, DUIs, wills and estates, corporate mergers, starbase real estate zoning, alliance founding and much more. Feel free to contact us for a free consultation.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2012-07-17 13:33:53 UTC
Only Holders and slavers are allowed to hold slaves in the Empire, most usually, besides imperial institutions like the Navy, etc. Thus, your liege lord Holder is the only one to have the legal right over the property of your slaves under imperial law, unless you are yourself a subordinate Holder or slaver and hold the legal property of the slaves in question. He currently is in his right to accuse you of thief and heresy.

Of course, you can also ask for and intervention of the Civic Court but considering the situation you are in, with stolen slaves in regards to imperial law, I doubt they will do anything in your favor. Would you have not taken your slaves with you in the first place, your Holder could have been convicted of abusing his mandate if his accusations against you were proven false (if you did not emancipated any slave without his consent).
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-07-17 14:33:05 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
...Slaves who are being kept for solely economic or prestige purposes should immediately be freed at the Holders expense to the slave's choice of either the Federation or the Republic.


This statement will get you about as far in the Kingdom as trying to mandate forced religious education and indentured servitude would in the Federation.

To put it simpler; take your nonsense ideas with you on the way out, and don't let the door hit you in the rear.




Sabik now, Sabik forever

Edaine Numenor
Numenor Benevolent Holdings
#6 - 2012-07-17 14:36:00 UTC
I am somewhat mystified by this discussion of legality. You are a capsuleer. Any capsuleer can purchase and/or acquire slaves in the Empire. Once that is done, those slaves are your legal property. In fact, there are slaves for sale pretty much everywhere, including in Gallente, Caldari, and Minmatar space. You can keep them or sell them. Such actions have no impact on your legal standing with authorities and/or corporate organizations within the Empire. You can transport them legally in Empire space, Kingdom Space, and Mandate space. If you are having problems with authorities in Empire space it is likely due to standing problems and/or security status issues stemming from other things you have done.

You need not be an Amarr Holder or Slaver to own slaves. For the capsuleer, slaves are treated as any other commodity that is legal in some places and illegal in other places. You mention, "as a non-Holder I am legally unable to own Slaves that are not crewing my ships." There is no law enforcing this. You may house these people on any station where you can dock. Though technically, you cannot free them by altering their status as slaves, you can keep them off the slave market forever if you so choose.

Accept it or not, when you became a capsuleer your relationship with baseliner holders such as the Liege Lord you mentioned, changed. You have a new opportunity to act on your convictions regarding slavery.

You also mentioned problems moving slaves out of the Empire and into Gallente space. That is because they are considered an illegal commodity in Gallente, Caldari, and Minmatar space. My organization, NUVOS, can provide free covert transportation if you wish to repatriate your slaves to the Republic or across portions of space where slave transportation is illegal. We can connect former slaves to organizations within the Republic who will provide repatriation services. Please let me know if there is any way I can assist you in this matter.

Liberating slaves wherever, whenever, and however I can.

Nuran Mukadder
Chor Aurea
#7 - 2012-07-17 16:15:51 UTC
Edaine Numenor wrote:
Accept it or not, when you became a capsuleer your relationship with baseliner holders such as the Liege Lord you mentioned, changed. You have a new opportunity to act on your convictions regarding slavery.


While you are completely right about Ms. Mai's status, Edaine, her relatives may still be considered baseliners - even if they have a capsuleer in their midst. Therefore, they're still bound by the Empire rules, and i understand her concerns about the possible adverse consequences.

Ms. Mai, my original home world adopted some practices that may benefit your slaves. Feel free to check our commented history (it may point out to some interesting facts about our local culture) and let me know if i can be of any help.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-07-17 21:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaki Mai
I suspected I'd recieve some angry responses from those who want nothing more than to maintain Holder privilige, regardless of whether those Holders are interested in actually discharging their God Given obligations to the Slaves in their households.

Yes, actually, I do realise that I have screwed up. It's not the first time and I doubt it will be the last. In my defence nothing in the Imperial Academy prepares you for the extra-legal status that Independent Capsuleers hold. I have no Chaplain to seek advice from and no superiors I could have sought direction from. I acted as I saw best. If I cared nothing for the Empire I could simply carry on about my Empyrean life and deal with the situation in a Capsuleer manner - possibly involving a short tour in the Minmatar Militia.

My standings with the Empire have taken a hit, yes, but I remain on reasonable terms with both the Empire proper AND most of the subordinate organisations. Officially my standings with ALL of the bodies involved are positive, what is being applied to me is not the LAW, it is some odious form of soft power. I have not been exiled, I have simply been SHUNNED.

I cannot take direct action against my former Lord Holder without jeopardising my family. I would also like to be able to return home for high days and holidays without being a pariah. It seems that any direct action I could take would be illegal and place my legitimate standings in jeopardy.

The one good thing about this is that the Slaves themselves will not suffer from my current predicament. They are out of my hands, safe in the Republic and beyond the reach of any legal body that might want to repossess them. Sadly they passed out of my hands before I could look into the advice Ms Mukkader and Mr Numenor gave me.
Sentar Dethahal
Wohlstandsgesellschaft
#9 - 2012-07-19 14:32:17 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
regardless of whether those Holders are interested in actually discharging their God Given obligations to the Slaves in their households.


Mrs. Mai,

I am interested in hearing what you believe our "God Given obligations" are to our slaves?
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-07-19 14:53:08 UTC
The Amarr are charged with cultivating the human spirit, not neglecting it for economical gain.

The Amarr are tasked with exemplifying righteous living and instructing others to live the same, not practicing "do as I say, not as I do."

Both of these are justified by the Scriptures:

Scriptures, Book I 1:14c wrote:

"[...]
The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
[...]"


Scriptures, Book II 2:1b wrote:

"[...]
But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.
Thus they were saved and became God's chosen."


The point is that we must live in righteousness and teach others to do the same, these are mandated obligations to those within our Empire, slave and non-slave alike.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#11 - 2012-07-19 15:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Natalcya Katla
Amaki Mai wrote:
My standings with the Empire have taken a hit, yes, but I remain on reasonable terms with both the Empire proper AND most of the subordinate organisations. Officially my standings with ALL of the bodies involved are positive, what is being applied to me is not the LAW, it is some odious form of soft power. I have not been exiled, I have simply been SHUNNED.


I understand perfectly what you mean. My personal advice would be to remain under the aegis of CONCORD law and let partisan institutions be as petty as they please, but that's obviously not what you want.

You're asking for legal advice here, but if this Holder is working within the framework of the system against you - and I suspect he is - then there's not really any legal action you can take against him. Even if his efforts to sabotage your life do infringe on the law in some minor way, I suspect finding proof that will hold up in court will be difficult - especially since he obviously has influence within the very institutions that would examine that evidence.

This may sound crude, but I expect your best option in this situation would be to send the Holder in question a well-written apology, coupled with a suitably extravagant (but by capsuleer standards, affordable) gift. That approach seems to go a long way towards amending "soft power" problems.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-07-19 21:14:04 UTC
Certainly Law is going to be an unproductive way of persuing this. Nothing truly illegal has been done to me, unless I can prove harassment. I'm pretty sure the baseliner officials within the organisations I mentioned earlier will simply close ranks and I will have wasted my money and hardened their hearts against me still further.

I have been speaking to some capsuleers more influential in Amarr society than myself. There may be a way that I can apologise to the Holder for any percieved slight without backing off from my stated position and relinquishing any claim I might have to possessing a backbone.

Perhaps a gift would be the way to go, in the future.

Holder Dethahal, my position has been very succinctly put by Mr (Sorry! I don't know your title!) Amith. According to the legislation that empowers Holders to take slaves there is a demand that this be for the purposes of Reclamation of their souls and not merely for the economic worth of the sweat from their brow.

At present the weather is fine in Gallente space. My contacts in Federation Navy are surprised but pleased to see me back - although their smug "I told you so"s are a little irritating.
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-07-19 22:57:09 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
At present the weather is fine in Gallente space. My contacts in Federation Navy are surprised but pleased to see me back - although their smug "I told you so"s are a little irritating.


I'm almost certain that the Federation has found a way to weaponize smugness.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Sentar Dethahal
Wohlstandsgesellschaft
#14 - 2012-07-20 03:03:12 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:

Holder Dethahal, my position has been very succinctly put by Mr (Sorry! I don't know your title!) Amith. According to the legislation that empowers Holders to take slaves there is a demand that this be for the purposes of Reclamation of their souls and not merely for the economic worth of the sweat from their brow.

Mrs. Mai,

I think that you have realized you made a mistake, and you have paid for it. I would be willing to offer my assistance if needed to return to the Empire. When you do return however, I would strongly advise you to make amends with the Lord in question. He was correct in his charges, and while you seem to have learned some, you would do well to study the issues further. That may save you from repeating this situation in the future.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#15 - 2012-07-20 10:19:36 UTC
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:
Amaki Mai wrote:
At present the weather is fine in Gallente space. My contacts in Federation Navy are surprised but pleased to see me back - although their smug "I told you so"s are a little irritating.


I'm almost certain that the Federation has found a way to weaponize smugness.


The speed of their ship correlates to their own sense of self satisfaction.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-07-20 12:24:18 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Mr (Sorry! I don't know your title!) Amith.


I possess no title. I cast off the title of Holder when I became a capsuleer, it is no longer my purpose in God's plan to instruct through slavery and political influence in the Empire.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Ran'shad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-07-21 17:53:14 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
I know that Lord Ran'shad of the Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment is in need of workforce and would do his very best to spiritually care for anyone.


While I do not normally keep tabs on all of these side conversations, this one caught my eye....its not overly common that I should see myself referred to in the greater galactic political debates...but I digress.

What Ms d'Hanguest says is quite true, I am always looking to take on additional...personnel...to help us with our various projects. In return they receive the best spiritual education through a process of soul cleansing labor and religious education. I am pleased to say that many of my current personnel very rarely require corporal or other forms of discipline from my Master of Slaves, as they have seen that the end - their reclamation into the Faith - more than justifies the means we employ.

It is our sacred duty as Holders to ensure that those entrusted to us by the Almighty are educated in the Faith and given every opportunity to better themselves, soul, body and mind.

These days many Holders, reveling in their new found capsuleer immortality have become more sadistic, some even forgetting the ultimate purpose behind our Holding slaves at all. It is not for our benefit, but for theirs. Rarely does the sheep understand the methods of the Sheppard, so to do so few Minimatar realize the importance of our work as Holders.


Once more, I have digressed. I am always willing to take on additional personnel, whatever condition they may be in.

High Lord Ran'Shad CEO Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment Elemental Tide Alliance

Rakkas Kanenald
Tir Capital Management Group
#18 - 2012-07-22 18:37:00 UTC
Ran'shad wrote:
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
I know that Lord Ran'shad of the Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment is in need of workforce and would do his very best to spiritually care for anyone.


While I do not normally keep tabs on all of these side conversations, this one caught my eye....its not overly common that I should see myself referred to in the greater galactic political debates...but I digress.

What Ms d'Hanguest says is quite true, I am always looking to take on additional...personnel...to help us with our various projects. In return they receive the best spiritual education through a process of soul cleansing labor and religious education. I am pleased to say that many of my current personnel very rarely require corporal or other forms of discipline from my Master of Slaves, as they have seen that the end - their reclamation into the Faith - more than justifies the means we employ.

It is our sacred duty as Holders to ensure that those entrusted to us by the Almighty are educated in the Faith and given every opportunity to better themselves, soul, body and mind.

These days many Holders, reveling in their new found capsuleer immortality have become more sadistic, some even forgetting the ultimate purpose behind our Holding slaves at all. It is not for our benefit, but for theirs. Rarely does the sheep understand the methods of the Sheppard, so to do so few Minimatar realize the importance of our work as Holders.


Once more, I have digressed. I am always willing to take on additional personnel, whatever condition they may be in.



This view is exactly why the Minmatar will rise above the the playground bullies cowering behind the shield of religion, claiming to be helping others, while prospering from the blood of the Matari. Send your slaves to republic space capsuleer Mai, they will truly be taken care of, free, with their brothers and sisters without the chains of slavery that bind them to ignorance.
Khaalis
#19 - 2012-07-22 21:00:57 UTC
Rakkas Kanenald wrote:
Send your slaves to republic space capsuleer Mai, they will truly be taken care of, free, with their brothers and sisters without the chains of slavery that bind them to ignorance.


Really? That's pretty naive.

You're assuming these slaves would actually prefer the Republic to where they are right now when Ms. Mai hasn't even said anything about their ethnicity. For all we know they are of Ealur origin, or Ni-kunni or Khanid, or even a disgraced Amarrian family and their place as a slave is rightly so.

Besides that I think you are over estimating the possibility of a faithful Matari slave, likely multiple generations descended, to be painlessly integrated into a culture that will definitely not take too kindly to their beliefs. Think on this for a while. It's just more trouble for everyone than it's even worth.

To the topic at hand, I urge Ms. Mai to do the right thing and place these people in the hands of a proper holder.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#20 - 2012-07-22 22:45:54 UTC
If this situation has not already been resolved, I urge you to do the right thing and ask them where they would like to go. Captain Monmaki would be happy to carry out their transport no doubt, as would I.
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