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Amarr ships - a niche?
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Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-16 14:55:43 UTC
Minmatar excels at small-gang stuff and that's what the alliance tournament is. Armour fleets in the real world have a lot of Amarr ships.

hello
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-07-16 14:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Danny John-Peter wrote:
you know, those terrible Laser ships.


Exactly...

Hellcats = a lot of arty Maels (or arty Abaddons)
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#23 - 2012-07-16 15:03:26 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
Sicne you want to play this game...


ecm- Minmater has the lowest ECM resilience
tracking disruption - Pulses indeed have the worse tracking of short range turrets, but beams on other hand have the highest tracking. Pulses also have such superiority in range that they are the ones that suffer LESS form the range scripts among all turrets.

cap warfare - Amarr do use cap to fire, like hybrids, but they have larger capacitor reserves tahn any other race, and more cargo space than other races, to carry.. boosters

dampening - Minmatar have the shortest locking range therefore the most affected by dampening.


ecm - truth
TD - the problem is that laser setups are based around being at midrange (and if they aren't the folks dreaming up the AT fits should probably stick to their day job) so TD hurts pulses just as much
Megathron has more cargo room than an Abaddon
damps - see TD
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2012-07-16 16:50:00 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:
Sicne you want to play this game...


ecm- Minmater has the lowest ECM resilience
tracking disruption - Pulses indeed have the worse tracking of short range turrets, but beams on other hand have the highest tracking. Pulses also have such superiority in range that they are the ones that suffer LESS form the range scripts among all turrets.

cap warfare - Amarr do use cap to fire, like hybrids, but they have larger capacitor reserves tahn any other race, and more cargo space than other races, to carry.. boosters

dampening - Minmatar have the shortest locking range therefore the most affected by dampening.


ecm - truth
TD - the problem is that laser setups are based around being at midrange (and if they aren't the folks dreaming up the AT fits should probably stick to their day job) so TD hurts pulses just as much
Megathron has more cargo room than an Abaddon
damps - see TD


Except nobody in the thread, except you, is talking about fits in the Alliance Tournament.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2012-07-16 17:07:08 UTC
85% of Amarr is Scorch.

Remove Scorch from the equation and Amarr is just bad Gallente for the most part.

But they have Scorch so they are goodish. There T1 Lineup below the Harbinger isn't well good.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-07-16 17:12:57 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
I just had a look at the ATX stats and was wondering:

Do fill Amarr ships only a niche today?



sniper range is not important in the tourney.... thus no Amarr presents in ATX. There is no room in the sphere of tourney fighting for that kind of range..

You will notice that there were some Amarr Command ships and Logi on some teams who used armor tanks. as well as the work horse of the ammata, the Curse that actually gets a lot of use.. are these niche uses.. probably. Amarr has been less than popular in the tourney for many years.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#27 - 2012-07-16 18:00:10 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Amarr ships are very bad in every situation.

Amarr ships are only good for mission running in Amarr space and even then Mach and Tengu do it better. Otherwise they are only used in lol setups in tournaments and for light shows in Jita cam.

Lasers can be rendered useless with one neut. Massive explosive hole in armor resists (most used ships, Minmatar T2, are very good counter to any Amarr ship). Limited damage types (if you know you will have to fight Amarr ships you know how to fit your ship).



Right.... I fly almost exclusively Amarr ships for combat and do a fair amount of solo work. I would beg to differ regarding your conclusion. Also this is some very rigid thinking regarding fittings.

As far as the AT goes - I would venture to say the Amarr rush team with 100mn HAM legions was hardly a lol setup.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-07-16 18:21:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Amarr ships are susceptible to all forms of Ewar making them weak to anything the other side may bring, while generally lacking the midslots for control and their own forms of Ewar. Also with the massive use of T2 minnie ships lasers just don't work too well.

...
"Also with the Massive use of T2 minnie ships"

I can think of 4, the Scimitar, Huginn, Claymore, Broadsword, they are popular granted, but none more so than the Drake, Tengu, Onyx, Basilisk, Falcon, Lachesis which have (as I am sure you are aware) a massive EM Hole.
Amarr ships are also the Bane of almost any T1 shield tanker.
Lasers may also have hard time punching through the high resists of T2 Minmatar, however the Raw damage and projection of Lasers makes them an asset more than a curse.
TLDR, its all swings and roundabouts, they have some disadvantages and some advantages, just like everybody else.

Only 4, thukk man, how could you forget the Vaga!

On 2011.12.02 - of the top 20 T2 ships being using to shoot at things (based on final blows) the Vagabond was the most popular 593,096; however the Zealot came in second with 466,449 followed by the Saber, Rapier, Taranis, Broadsword, Ishtar.

The scimi is of course not present in final blow statistics, and things have of course changed since the AF buff, but hey

What that tells me is, the man has a point. The Abaddon's had its day and has for the most part been superseded by the Mal. While you may still see ahac fleets of Zealots, these are sub-optimal: for pilots who aren't rich/confident enough to use a Loki in the role :P (err or a legion I guess)


If you're a frill seeker you need a Vaga!
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#29 - 2012-07-16 18:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginseng Jita
Amarr ships are a lot less forgiving if a pilot makes a mistake. If I were to list the ships that are easiest to fly and be effective to the hardest to fly and be effective it would go like this.

1) Caldari
2) Minmatar
3) Gallente
4) Amarr

Amarr ships can be effective - you just have to put a lot of time and effort into learning how to make them effective.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-07-16 18:56:13 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Dude, Im not talking the Alliance tourney, Im talking the "real" world, where Scimitars & Sleipnirs arent entire fleets.

I would argue that armour tankers in generally are inherently hardened against ECM, due to mid slots to fit ECCM mods.
Cap warfare; read what I already posted, also, Minny shield are pretty vulnerable to Cap Warfare due to lack of cap boosters and presence of invuls, Caldari similarly so, Minmatar also need to go fast, which needs cap.
Damping; Amarr have longer base locking range than most ships in there class brocookie, also, when was the last time you saw Damps used in actual PVP to any real effect.

Again, this is like proper PVP, not tourney PVP, which is full of minny rush.


And no, hes asking if Amarr perform a Niche in the actual game, because they are uncommon in the tourney.


Dude you keep mentioning REAL WORLD...WTF man. do you realize how many cat girls you just killed?
Alara IonStorm
#31 - 2012-07-16 19:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:

Dude you keep mentioning REAL WORLD...WTF man. do you realize how many cat girls you just killed?

Yes but in EVE every downside has an upside, even a loss.

While losers may mope about the loss EVE players are already carving up their remains for their precious sellable organs.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-07-17 00:34:33 UTC
Fidelium Mortis wrote:
As far as the AT goes - I would venture to say the Amarr rush team with 100mn HAM legions was hardly a lol setup.


Reason it worked was that nobody expected it.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-07-17 00:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsus Zateki
Gold trim, sleek lines, beautiful calligraphy, lasers. You don't fly an Amarrian ship for such nebulous things as effectiveness or raw DPS/EHP. Those things are for the lesser peoples who have no concept of style or self worth. You fly an Amarrian ship because you are making a statement of just how much better a person you are. You fly them because the light of your lasers reflecting off your armor shows refined taste that no savage will ever understand.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Forum Foreplay
#34 - 2012-07-17 01:09:17 UTC
There is a ship in EvE that is not a niche ship?

Even a sandbox has borders to keep the sand inside...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-07-17 01:27:52 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Gold trim, sleek lines, beautiful calligraphy, lasers. You don't fly an Amarrian ship for such nebulous things as effectiveness or raw DPS/EHP. Those things are for the lesser peoples who have no concept of style or self worth. You fly an Amarrian ship because you are making a statement of just how much better a person you are. You fly them because the light of your lasers reflecting off your armor shows refined taste that no savage will ever understand.


Agreed.

100mn AB Tengu and dual tank Mach FTW!
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#36 - 2012-07-17 01:36:53 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Lasers... no ammo required. Great for taking down objects that have a ton of hp.


Huh I thought there was an entire damage class that they just cant do

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-07-17 01:37:12 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:

...and more cargo space than other races, to carry.. boosters


You might want to double check that; many amarrian ships have less cargo then their equivalents because.. less ammo
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#38 - 2012-07-17 01:43:29 UTC
And as you can see from my other posts, Im not a anti PVP guy, Im an anti-stupid **** guy.

You dont fly a Hulk twice down a 0.0 pipeline 20 something jumps one way and have fun doing it if you hate PVP lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#39 - 2012-07-17 03:30:40 UTC
Evet Morrel wrote:
If you're a frill seeker you need a Vaga!
Didn't they take away its frills when they V3d it?

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
pussnheels
Viziam
#40 - 2012-07-17 04:50:17 UTC
all these different theories and fitting doctrines are interesting ,and people can debate this forever and never agree on what the best ship and fittings are , in the end a ship is only as good as its pilot , he and/or his team decide the outcome
For Amarr ships ; i fly exclusive amarr ships, not only because it fits this character but also they are pretty good and versitile ships in my opinion , yep my opinion and my way of flying ,

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
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