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Help me decide what ship is best for me for drone hordes.

Author
Dinames
F L C L
#1 - 2012-07-11 09:23:44 UTC
I moved out to nullsec about a month ago and have been trying to find a ship that I like and feel comfortable in doing drone hordes.

I purchased this toon of which has near perfect Tengu skills after hearing from several people that the Tengu was the way to go for drone hordes. After finally saving up the isk to buy one and fit it properaly I ended up losing it within a week due to a silly mistake. After that I realized that while the Tengu is a nice ship in it's own right and is capable of dishing out very nice DPS it leads little room for errors as I found out in a very unfortunate way, Ultimately a cruisers hull is a cruisers hull.

So with that in mind I decided that I wanted to go for a tank oriented ship, i figured that with something that can tank well I could afford some mistakes and I would still be okay in the long run.. After doing some research I decided to purchase a Rattlesnake. After about a week or so of playing around with the fits..this soo called "tanking machine" couldn't survive 30 seconds within a horde having the towers blasting on it's shields...it's apparent that passive tanking just will not work on horde's. Furthermore a active tank poses more of a risk since there's a cap draining tower in one of the two horde types. Also I wasn't impressed with the damage output...I wasn't expecting anything to fantastic as most of the dps from the rattlesnake comes from the drones and my drone skills aren't up to par just yet. But even with that being said, if it can't tank a horde then what's the point right?

My next thought was to start training for the Chimera and ultimately this will be one of my long term goals. However, the training time is extensive and Ideally I would like to be making a good deal of isk during this time so that I can afford to buy the damn ship when the time comes!

So this is leaving me kinda lost I'm not really sure what I can do. I want to find a ship that can actually tank a horde, dish out a decent amount of dps as well to ideally make my ticks around 18-22 mil each. I'm looking for any help i can get on this
I'm posting my eveboard below so anyone who wishes can take a look at my skills and see where i stand in regards to ships they believe will suit me. I will take all suggestions seriously I would just like your reasoning behind them.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dinames

on another note, I also have an alt account however he's purely industry based I wouldn't be opposed to training him up in some type of support ship of some sort to perhaps give me an edge while ratting.
Dinames
F L C L
#2 - 2012-07-15 05:38:54 UTC
bump still looking for all the help i can get!
zzt Mycroft
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-15 05:49:19 UTC
Plz post the rattlesnake fit you used.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-15 07:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerrick Palivorn
Honestly you'll have to be putting out about 1000 dps in order to get around 20 mil a tick, with this in mind it really limited your options as to what you can use.

Drones for one are a big issue and what you use can greatly effect how fast you can clear a horde. You must move in your ship in order to effectively tank the horde, the only ships I know of that can remain still and tank a horde are carriers and supers, that being said you have to use finesse to tank the horde, and afterburner is something that I would reccomend. Honestly the nuet tower isn't that effective if you take it out first, remember to destroy it ASAP. For instance I infrequently use my active tanked tengu in the nuet hordes and don't have any real issues if I'm moving, and I take out the tower first.

I would like to look at your rattlesnake fit and see how it's tanked, resists play a huge role in the tanking ability.

After looking at your skills it is apparent that you are min/maxed for flying the tengu, with Gal BS at 2 and Caldari BS at 3 you are terribly underpowered to even think about flying the Rattlesnake, the almost complete lack of drone skills (The Rattler is a drone boat) and also the low skill levels in BS missile systems all add up to (See Below)--->

Don't fly this ship yet!!!! Empasis on the yet...

You are skilled for the tengu, fly the tengu. You would also be great at flying a drake too! Use these two ships until you have level 4 skills in all skills effecting the Rattlesnake, including Gal/Caldari BS Drone skills, Drone support skills, Cruise Missiles/Torps, and at least have Core competency up to standard certificate or better. This will help you so much in what problems you are experiencing.

You must walk before you can run, and before you can walk you must crawl.

Gerrick

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Major Crichton
F L C L
#5 - 2012-07-15 07:35:30 UTC
This is an alt of mine, off the top of my head my build was passive around 230 recharge rate.

4x cruise missile launcher I
1x drone link augmentor
1x True Sansha Smartbomb EM

1x adaptive invl field II
2x explosive deflection amp II
2x large shield extender II
2x shield rechargers

2x drone dmg amp II
4x shield power relay II (some are the meta 4 varient unsure of name right now)

This fit seems to be able to take out the non neut tower horde without much trouble. However the other one it has issues with.

I figure as of right now since i plan to train for a chimera the rattlesnake is technically on the way there. I'm just wondering if I can expect to get some better ticks as my skills level for the rattlesnake?
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-07-15 10:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerrick Palivorn
Major Crichton wrote:
This is an alt of mine, off the top of my head my build was passive around 230 recharge rate.

4x cruise missile launcher I
1x drone link augmentor
1x True Sansha Smartbomb EM

1x adaptive invl field II
2x explosive deflection amp II
2x large shield extender II
2x shield rechargers

2x drone dmg amp II
4x shield power relay II (some are the meta 4 varient unsure of name right now)

This fit seems to be able to take out the non neut tower horde without much trouble. However the other one it has issues with.

I figure as of right now since i plan to train for a chimera the rattlesnake is technically on the way there. I'm just wondering if I can expect to get some better ticks as my skills level for the rattlesnake?


I'm confused are you using Dinames or Major Crichton with this set up, also what rigs and drones are you using for this?

EDIT: Why are you using explosive deflection amps, your fit uses almost no cap why would the nuet tower give you issues? Fit omni resists for the hordes.

Drop the Shield rechargers and the Explosive amps, put on 2 invulns, em, thermal hardners, with an afterburner in the extra mid. The should give you better resistance tank and the extra speed will help with movement so you can avoid getting hit as frequently. Also you'll probably need some Purgers on the rigs, that will help with your recharge rate. Also think of putting on a damage control unit as the resistances provided do not suffer the stacking penalty.

Good luck

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Metch
Yuengling Technologies
#7 - 2012-07-16 20:58:42 UTC
I am using an omni tanked passive Nighthawk. All shield resistances 85% + and I can perma tank the hordes with no problem. DPS is not very high though which is why I use my alt in a tornado to DPS down the battleships while keeping out of range. I just orbit the main structure at the site and ALWAYS take out the neut tower first.

Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-07-16 21:31:40 UTC
Really the only high tank, high DPS ship that goes well in hordes is a carrier, and for that you need a Thanatos. One repper, couple of tank mods, 2-3 drone damage mods, couple of omni's, 3 Cap rechargers, 4 DCUs and a drone link augmenter and nothing will beat your ticks except a Nyx or a titan...

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-18 05:10:55 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Really the only high tank, high DPS ship that goes well in hordes is a carrier, and for that you need a Thanatos. One repper, couple of tank mods, 2-3 drone damage mods, couple of omni's, 3 Cap rechargers, 4 DCUs and a drone link augmenter and nothing will beat your ticks except a Nyx or a titan...


Ironically the Chimera can keep pace with the Thanatos on ticks, pretty good considering it's the worst Carrier...

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Earthmother
Road Kill Incorporated
#10 - 2012-07-18 09:13:18 UTC
I like ravens. and since you are going caldari route it is not bad to check it out.

Fit it with range rigs for missiles and targeting range in the mids. this will let you target and shoot out to 220km. fit a xl shield boster, invuln and AB. and fill the lows with BCUs. evry little tiny amount of dps is better than anything else.

Warp to horde at 100k. start burning away. shoot the BS with missiles and use drones on fregates as they get close. the booster wil not permarun, but wil suffice for tanking fregates.

with this setup i was able to pull around 15 mill tick in Blood raider space 3 years ago, when i was a poor dude.
strenif
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-07-18 20:22:12 UTC
Chimera with Curator II's is the best way to do hordes.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#12 - 2012-07-18 20:52:22 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Really the only high tank, high DPS ship that goes well in hordes is a carrier, and for that you need a Thanatos. One repper, couple of tank mods, 2-3 drone damage mods, couple of omni's, 3 Cap rechargers, 4 DCUs and a drone link augmenter and nothing will beat your ticks except a Nyx or a titan...

How would you fit more than 1 DCU?
CrazySpaceHobo
Haddock's Legitimate Trading
#13 - 2012-07-18 23:10:50 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Really the only high tank, high DPS ship that goes well in hordes is a carrier, and for that you need a Thanatos. One repper, couple of tank mods, 2-3 drone damage mods, couple of omni's, 3 Cap rechargers, 4 DCUs and a drone link augmenter and nothing will beat your ticks except a Nyx or a titan...

How would you fit more than 1 DCU?


Drone Control Units
Bibosikus
Aliastra
#14 - 2012-07-19 09:25:57 UTC
I've posted elsewhere about this, but here we go again briefly:

If you can't fly a Carrier, dual-boxing RR Dominixes is the way to go:

[Dominix, Horde RR]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Sensor Booster II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Curator II x5
Garde II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Rigs to taste - I use a Trimark & a couple of RRA's for extra cap stability; with those, the neuting tower isn't an issue at all.
Warp to 100km, drop 10 Curators, and just pew. The Curators have 97km optimal, and their combined dps is over 1100.
Take both scripts for the SeBo. Warping at 100 to a Horde, you occasionally land at 60, sometimes at 120, from the bulk of the rats. I think it depends on the direction of approach.
This setup requires micromanagement, but after a few days' practice you'll be reaching 17-20m ticks on each char.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.