EVE General Discussion

Everyone does have a fighting chance. Invention ensures just that.
If you believe that a BPO will give you some kind of advantage (which, given the copy comment, will probably turn out to be false), then go ahead and buy one — it's what most of the current BPO holders did, after all…
Fun fact: it is.
From a newbie point of view, why do you think that T2 manufacturing is for you? Maybe it's something you should get into once you know the ropes a bit better…

…once you do, the point of going into T2 production is obvious: it earns you more money than plain old T1.

Of course a T2 BPO gives you an advantage... Unless you're saying that -4ME is better than 50 ME.
Sure people buy and sell them but thats beside the point really. The fact is that the owners of T2 BPOs can produce at a cost that invention couldnt dream of getting to.


1. I don't own a T2 BPO, so was not aware of this.

2. A T2 BPO vs the exact same item invented wins. It's simple math. A 50ME BPO with 0 invention costs is simply cheaper to manufacture than a -4 ME BPC that costs datacores. This is fact. I'm not aruging about a BPO item vs items where BPOs are not available, im saying like for like, the BPO owner wins.

if you lost money, you didnt do enough checking double and triple checking. most peopel dont when they start off, blindly invent stuff there is so little demand for the price is low.

So go buy one.
No, it's not besides the point — it is in fact critical ot the point because it completely annihilates what remains of the “it is unfair” argument once you remove the massive volume advantage that invention allows.
So? Just because you don't want to/can't be bothered to invest that much (and hope that the game doesn't go out of business before it pays off) doesn't mean it's not an option.
No it was not. It was made to break the monopoly of BPO holders, and it did just that.

In fact, wtf am I doing repeating all this. Just go read this thread (that has already been linked twice) and try to come up with some proper argument that haven't already been refuted a bajillion times already.

Still waiting my agents to give me a single T2 BPO

Ho, I can't have it ?? - really?

WTF ! -Me too I WANT IT NAO !!

Being a 'newbie' myself, who never got into the lottery...

T2 BPO's are a small drop on a hot plate compared to invention when it comes to building and selling modules.
Sure yes, it's a nice ISK print as they are cheaper to build things, but all the T2 BPO's out there cannot even begin to compete with the demand for T2 items.
Most of the T2 items you seen on the market are built with invention. I do a lot of inventing myself, making a truckload of money doing it. When you see stuff at prices that you think you can't compete with, you're probably doing your research wrong, or the market is oversaturated with said item, causing people to sell at a loss to liquidize their ISK and move to something more profitable.
There's also ofcourse the group of people who think 'the minerals I mine are free' and thus manufacture and sell at an effective loss to the market cost of said items.

As for making copies of a T2 BPO, if you examined them, you'd notice that making a copy of a T2 BPO takes more time than building the item itself, so copying is simply not an effective means to increase production from it. a T2 BPO can make a certain amount of items per month, and that's it.

An inventor is pretty much limited to howmany manufacturing and research slots they have available and can build many many more items a month than a T2 BPO holder can.

@op

While you are correct that all of the T2 BPOs were given out for little or no cost, and even CCP has admitted that the lottery was one of their biggest mistakes in Eve, I question your claim that today's BPO owners have an advantage over inventors that they did not pay for.

It would love to see some numbers from CCP so that this could be put to rest once and for all. How many of the BPOs that were handed out in the lottery do you think are still in the hands of the original owner, that paid little or nothing for it, rather than in the hands of an investor that laid down years of forward profits to buy it? Do you think that the alliances that are sitting on multiple BPOs actually got them for free? What prevents your alliance from doing the same as they did, and actually buy one? There are T2 auctions all the time, all you need to do is pony up the cash.

As for the advantage that those BPO holders have, yes they can produce more cost effectivly than I can, but they can only produce one product on a single line (per BPO that they own). They cannot shift from product to product as the game and the market prices evolve. They cannot run multiple production lines when demand is high. When demand is low (or they simply don't feel like baby sitting a manufacturing line ATM), they have a multi-billion isk investment collecting dust. Worst of all, pity the poor soul that buys their vaunted BPO [sound of angels singing], only to have that product nerfed or simply fall out of favor.

I don't own any T2 BPOs, and while I know there are manufacturers out there that can produce more profitably than I can, I don't feel at all disadvantaged. I can build on multiple lines, build what is profitable today, choose to build something else or nothing tomorrow, and I have little investment to loose.

What having the T2 BPOs out there does for the game is insure that there is a supply of some of the low volume modules that very few players would consider actually inventing, but some players may actually want to buy. ie. 50mm Armor II.

IMO, having the limited numbers of BPOs out there competing with invention is the best thing for the game. Invention prevents the BPO holders from having a monopoly and charging outrageous prices, but the BPOs insure that some level of supply is always available. Again IMO, doing nothing to change this is the best thing CCP can do. At most, I would think they should consider buffing decryptors such that every invention has a decriptor that might be advantageous at the right price.

(Haha damned forum, I copied my post before posting)

Then you need to address the arguments made in Akita T's thread and try to debunk them. Good luck with that one.


…you're going to need it.

Again, It's not just if the BPO exists, its if a BPO owner is competing in your area.

…and, again, the problem with this perceived issue is that the BPO owners' competition is so minute that you wouldn't notice it if it went away (except maybe that your production costs would increase).