EVE General Discussion

If renters actually show up for fleets to protect thier sov holders interests, things can get murky in a hurry.

But typically, renters don't pvp on a significant scale, the nearby MAJOR sov holders form the fleets, and fill in the bits in the middle with smaller sov holding blocs without major significant power.

The major sov holders suck isk off the renters, and (here's the important bit) suck a stream of the decent pvp players off of the smaller allied sov holding blocs around them.

Even smaller alliances grow pvp'rs but often fail to hold them because they cant form their own competent fleets with standard fleet doctrines and good FC's. So naturally, the better PvP'rs look for better ground to stand on, and many end up joining the major sov holder in the region.

So renters, while considered on the bottom, can in some respects be equal to the small sov holders as far as food importance to the local major power. One feeds them isk, the other decent players. The renters have to pve to make their mortgage, and that keeps them from pvp and thus stuck in their position as renters, and the constant bleedout of good players from small to large alliances keeps the smaller ones as small alliances, all in all keeping the power system stable.

That's my 2 cents worth.


Edit: I was in this same position 2 months ago with Why So Seri0us, and had I not seen my current (and former) corp recruiting, I would likely have gravitated towards one of the pvp corps from the Unthinkables (INK).

Disclaimer: WhysoSeri0us fleets have improved greatly in the past month since I left, they are actually able to form a good contribution to INK or Gypsy Tengu doctrine fleets.

Sov in the East, ladies & gentlemen. Ugh.

It is true that we don't seem to have a lot of industrialists over in the east.

Part of that is not having four regions in every direction blued so safe mining is assured.
Another part may be that logistics are so easy. Buy in Jita, move 3 jumps through gates, and jump directly to home system for JF's. I would assume the further out you are, the move valuable having in house industry would be.

Least that's how it is for the tribute/gem/vale regions atm and a bit further east.

And Russians ofc.. Russians stick with Russians, and Russians rent space. That covers most of the rest of the east.

don't give me that bollocks. i was in the south, and slightly east and we had one of the safest mining systems i've seen.
industry V, cyno jammed, dead end bubble on the gates deal. **** me, local and a pos is the only intel you need once you get industry 1 upgrades in the system. even a hulk can, and should align and warp to pos before even a good prober can locate you or your grav site and warp to you.
not to mention if you look at the security indexes of the regions in the east, especially the south east [ninja edit, my mistake], they have amazing belt ores too.

even if you are so close to jita you have arguably the best regions to mine in over there in the east/south east. simply saying "we're close to jita" as an excuse for not capitalising on the quality of the belts in your space is ludacris. let me put it this way; your -0.6 or -0.7 systems are the equivalent of our -0.9 systems in terms of ore quality, anything above that for us doesn't even have the "better" ores.

and don't even get me started on how utterly appauling delve and near by are also terrible for belt ore.

If you are unlucky enough to part of the old school food chain alliances (such as BoB, the old NC and so on) then what the NCdot. guy said is true.

If you are lucky enough to be part of a well structured and fair coalition that values and involves all its members then the idea or renters, pets and meatshields is not an issue.

I know which version of nullsec play I prefer.

Exactly. You've got two types of Sov holder:
Renter - you pay protection money.
Genuine Sov holder - you pay no one anything.

This is the difference between CFC and -A-.

-A- have renters, the Sov ownership is -A-'s and people pay them to live there.
CFC members are admittedly there because GSF as the biggest partner says its ok but each alliance owns its own space, its own moons and doesn't pay anyone. It's based on mutual defense...and war.



So if you're renting, it sucks as its no different to protection money you'd pay someone like the mafia. And most renter alliances tend to fall over eventually.

Well since the OP asked about the "caste" system, I told him.

If he had asked about the political structure of the north, it could easily be described as all the alliances standing in ring furiously circlejerking the guy on their left with one hands, and using the other hand to fondle Goonswarm in the middle. But that wouldn't have been what he asked for would it?

Some renters rent cause they don't think they would be accepted to any decent alliance in the north, and see being the renters of a major power in the east/south a good alternative.

Some want the access of 0.0 without having to be involved in alliances at all, and paying a fee not to be expected to defend their own space, support their own infrastructure or help their alliance in wars is worth of the fee of renting. A bil or 2 a month for a system is small change for a corp of dedicated ratters and rockmunchers after all.

Some see the rent system as a way to get in on the ground floor, get to prove them self by fleet attendance, and get promoted to ally or get accepted into the local alliance.

I have sen a lot of non English speaking language corps rent as well, must be rather hard to find a good alliance when few can join alliance fleets because of not speaking the dominant language.


TLDR: There are quite a few reasons a small corp may choose to rent instead of joining an alliance, many of them quite reasonable from their perspective. I don't agree with them, but they play the game how they choose.

That becomes a question of numbers. On one side you have too small to even be considered a threat and you'll get rolled for the lolz. On the other you have just big enough to be annoying and you get rolled becuase you're a potential threat.

Nobody likes a potential threat in their backyard.

I think this is likely why some of the smaller PVP Alliances have never bothered to claim any SOV. They are small alliances with decent numbers and excellent tactics but they lack the ability, incentive, or willingess to fight for strategic objectives in deep null.

What I'm waiting for is the day that an Alliance like RnK decides to involve themselves in the bigger narrative. The way they fight battles can be scaled up without dimishing the effectiveness. I would argue that what they do would totally change the complextion of SOV warfare. If anyone took the kind of numbers typically tossed around in SOV warfare and employed RnK style risk mitigation strategies to them they would be difficult to combat.

I think the first alliance to get their Super Cap fleet mousetrapped and slaughtered will have it done to them by a RnK type fleet.

What, you don't think the rest of the CFC are goon pets?

Never.

No I think you're over-generalizing. -A- space has a lot of renters. But some alliances don't have to pay rent. These are the alliances that have proven they can PvP well enough to police the space and help keep out the neuts/reds. The renters are not expected to do that. Of course no one cares when they get camped, either.