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[Advice needed] - Logistics + noob ship in L4's

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Echo Belly
#1 - 2011-10-08 17:54:37 UTC
Hey there, i'm going to play soon in a duo with a newbie friend and i'd like to take him to level 4 missions as quickly as possible.

The idea is to play a decently trained logistics ship (for me) and let him focus his training on raw firepower without worrying about the tank skills at all, and if possible without training the other engineering or electronics skills too much.

I'm trying to take everything into account but i might be missing things so i'd like some more experienced players opinions and ideas :


- Should my friend go directly for a fat battleship, or could a battlecruiser be good enough considering he'll be able to fit for 100% damage ?

- Which race's ships would be the most noob-friendly ? I'm thinking since Amarr and Gallente turrets use capacitor, maybe Caldari ships would be better but I read missiles are somewhat slower than turrets to do the job ? So maybe a Minmatar ship ? They have great strengths but also great weaknesses for a newbie, although for our little duo i'll probably be able to compensate them with my logi ship... x=

- What ship would have the shortest training time to be effective ? (For example i love the Typhoon but since you need to train turrets + missiles + drones to start seeing it's potential... it's at the opposite of what i'm looking for right now)

- I'll be flying a Scimitar. So there might be a ship that can take advantage of shield transfers and tracking links a lot more than others ? Obviously that would mean missile-boats are slightly off-topic, but i'm still open minded about it.

- What fittings do you suggest ? Both for the scimitar (although i think i have good idea of how to fly it) and the other ship. Should he fit for some minimum shield resistance or will i be able to provide enough shield with my Scim (with T1 repair drones, if needed) if he only has a T1 damage control ?

- Last but not least : let me know if you can think of good tactics for our duo.


Thanks a lot !
Yoinkerman
POS Party
Ember Sands
#2 - 2011-10-08 18:02:23 UTC
I would have him tag along in a BC while you do level 4s. That way it splits the bounties and he can salvage for more monies.

Have him pick either caldari or minmatar, cause lets face it, lasers only kill em/therm and hybrids suck and drones are hella slow.

Caldari is ez, drake.

minmatar is still pretty easy, my friend likes to use a typhoon/tempest. Arties suck, but they will work till he can train/save for a mach.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-10-08 21:00:39 UTC
Quote:
- Should my friend go directly for a fat battleship, or could a battlecruiser be good enough considering he'll be able to fit for 100% damage ?

Starting out a battlecruiser would work, but either way he'll prolly want to end up in a battleship for missioning since it will do more dps and tank better, unless he's flying a tengu.

Quote:
- Which race's ships would be the most noob-friendly ? I'm thinking since Amarr and Gallente turrets use capacitor, maybe Caldari ships would be better but I read missiles are somewhat slower than turrets to do the job ? So maybe a Minmatar ship ? They have great strengths but also great weaknesses for a newbie, although for our little duo i'll probably be able to compensate them with my logi ship... x=


For ultimate noob-friendly caldari would be the best choice since the only thing you really would have to worry about is range. (yes there's more than that but from a noob perspective it's range) Since you mentioned you will be flying a scimitar caldari or minmatar ships in general would be better since they are easier to tank in shields in general.

Quote:

- What ship would have the shortest training time to be effective ? (For example i love the Typhoon but since you need to train turrets + missiles + drones to start seeing it's potential... it's at the opposite of what i'm looking for right now)


I would say it's a toss between the raven and a tengu. Training for a raven would provide more immediately usable ships while training towards the ships, while the biggest hurdle for a tengu would be waiting the 4 weeks or so for caldari cruiser V. Also depending on how much capital isk your newbie friend has, buying and fitting a raven will be more affordable than a tengu and the loss is insurable.

Quote:
- I'll be flying a Scimitar. So there might be a ship that can take advantage of shield transfers and tracking links a lot more than others ? Obviously that would mean missile-boats are slightly off-topic, but i'm still open minded about it.


Honestly if a ship doesn't need to tank locally it'll have enough slots for tracking and damage so it wouldn't make too much of a difference either way.

Quote:

- Last but not least : let me know if you can think of good tactics for our duo.
tactics... he warps in and pisses off the entire room and you come in and save his ass?


Honestly if you can solo l4's yourself best tactic would be to have you warp in with your dps boat and then have your buddy tag along in whatever works for him.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-08 21:38:19 UTC
A shield tanked Tempest or Mael would be fine for your mate to train up to, just throw on 3 extender rigs, 1 or 2 shield extenders and 4 hardeners so we can take all agro, then you warp in and rep

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Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-09 00:09:40 UTC
I would second the have him warp in and help you on your L4s. Or you could have him train for a drake, those can do 4s with a relatively small amount of skills (except it takes awhile); with your added DPS it won't take awhile.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#6 - 2011-10-09 17:45:33 UTC
If you're insistent on the Logi + him in max damage idea, then a scimmy with triple tracking links is the way to go. Stick him in a Minmatar BS - Tempest or Maelstrom, doesn't really matter. Fit optimal range links and have him rock AC's. Your tank can be minimal or nonexistant, fit an AB and you'll be able to passively sigtank 99% of lvl 4's in the rare event you get aggro. Shadow serp tracking links are also rather cheap last time I checked, and well worth it.

But be warned - you'll be bored to tears. Set orbit to 50k and go get a drink once he has aggro.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#7 - 2011-10-09 21:33:30 UTC
you could have him get drones V fairly quickly and put him in a vexor. Then put a buffer tank on it while you fit a couple of rr's on your own battleship, and he orbits you. Could also work with a rupture and arties, though I dunno how well. That'd transfer nicely into a cane, though.

thhief ghabmoef
Jesus Rambo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-09 21:57:49 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
But be warned - you'll be bored to tears. Set orbit to 50k and go get a drink once he has aggro.


This goes for missioning in general.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-10 02:05:18 UTC
Coming from Incursions for the past year (need a break...I'm too rich..lol) the idea of you being dedicated logi and him being dedicated DPS is predicated on both of you maxing out those particular roles.

That said, a 4 slot shield tank is optimal, 3 is doable and less than that will take some work:
Invuln II x2, Photon II, Extender II (or T1 variants til your mate can fit the T2 version) works well.
For a blaster ship an AB would be helpful, and either a 3 slot shield Tank (one less Invuln II) plus the AB or a 5 mid slot ship for all of it is in order. The myrmidon comes to mind for this task

As BS's go, a Domi would be the next step after the Myrmidon.

I'd make sure to stick w/ Gallente or Amarr, specifically to max out DPS for that Character w/ Mag Stabs and Tracking Enhancers filling the low's (except for one DC II....always good to have)

Finally, you can cheat on the 4 Mid slot tank w/ rigs only so much. Experiment w/ each other (don't say that phrase out loud...) and figure out just how much buffer he needs to get aggro effectively without close calls. Once you both have a good handle on the missions, he needs max damage, and just enough tank to survive.

For your scimmy, you need the same...max repping, and just enough tank to survive. I would recommend putting a local rep (small booster) and dropping one of your large reps for a medium though, just for the in-case situations.

I'll try to come back w/ some fittings later

Ced

Cedric
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#10 - 2011-10-10 07:56:13 UTC
Given how poor his DPS will be early on and how reliant on the tank you provide he'll be... not to mention how long it's going to be before he can actually do anything of value (a Blaster Catalyst may be able to break Rachen Mysuna but it is going to be several weeks before he can mission effectively with you) it's going to be a very disheartening process for him.

You would be better off, in my opinion, to take a ship which is able to take (ideally) full room agro and do some reasonable damage while he takes a buffer fit damage ship (with instructions to warp out and back in when he gets yellow boxed initially - because he's not going to get the difference between the long range locks of some of the AE spawns and the within optimal one in The Assault).

If he's progressing through Destroyer (taking out the frigs (with your drones)), Cruiser, BC and on to Damage Plough BS then he'll feel more useful, you'll get a lot more missions run and he'll probably have more options when you're offline than if he's entirely reliant on your logistics ship (because he'll have a little more freedom in his training and will be able to skill to run his own missions).
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2011-10-10 16:44:22 UTC
Hi Echo Belly,

It is a very good idea to take your friend along with you, showing him EVE and letting him participate on your (probably rich) EVE experience.

I wonder though if small scale PVP wouldn't be more fun for both of you. Dragging him along in L4's might be a bit boring for both of you, especially when your friends won't be of that much use (lacking the damage skills for L4) in the beginning.

However, in PVP he can be of much more use, tackling, webbing, ewar etc. All of this is trained up in a short time! Let him use a frigate (Rifters are cheap!) and go for the fun!

Give it a try.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Diapara
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-10 21:00:17 UTC
I got into Eve through a friend of mine and we ran Level 4's together while I was a noob. I had Minmatar Frigate trained up to 2 or 3 pretty much first and flew a Rifter with him. He had an AFK Dominix warp in, gather full room aggro, and I got to kill the frigates, which was fun for a while. We didn't need a logi, but if I got yellow/red boxed, I was told to GTFO. I had a few close calls and lost a Rifter or two, which was pretty fun for a new person. However, one of his drones were doing more damage than I could, so it isn't any faster.

Another fun activity is to do a bit of solo PvP. We would take two frigates, meet at a planet in high sec (same corp), and first into armor lost. I learned some tactics and had fun.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-11 02:25:03 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Hi Echo Belly,

It is a very good idea to take your friend along with you, showing him EVE and letting him participate on your (probably rich) EVE experience.

I wonder though if small scale PVP wouldn't be more fun for both of you. Dragging him along in L4's might be a bit boring for both of you, especially when your friends won't be of that much use (lacking the damage skills for L4) in the beginning.

However, in PVP he can be of much more use, tackling, webbing, ewar etc. All of this is trained up in a short time! Let him use a frigate (Rifters are cheap!) and go for the fun!

Give it a try.


A dev just admitted that PVE is boring! Lol

He's right, though. Listen to him.
Echo Belly
#14 - 2011-10-15 00:20:46 UTC
Hey there (:

Thanks a lot for your replies, i've read them with attention and now i have a clearer idea of what we're going to do with my friend (:


About PvP : well that's actually the goal. But being a noob at PvP myself i wouldn't be very helpful and i'm not so sure that getting raped violently without understanding what was going on would be enjoyable for a total newbie to the game (:

In fact, the idea was first to get a feel or "experiment with each other", as Dr Cedric said, so we can at least work well in a team together and so my newbie can gently learn about the game's mechanics and have a clue *before* starting PvP fights. The idea with missions was also to make a few isks and get the reputation for jump clones. Both can be useful :)


I know it's possible for a new player to go straight for PvP, and yeah i'm sure it's really fun and i like the "no need for experience or money at all" thing, but in order to do that you need a PvP guild to provide you with strong mentoring and lots of expendable ships + modules. I'm not currently in a guild (i restarted playing EvE not long ago) and we don't feel like rushing things x= And i don't know but being unable to undock alone because your guild is wardec'ed probably isn't that much fun for a newbie too.


But yes, thinking about it... it's true that starting by specializing for L4's in a duo /could/ be boring... But i'm pretty sure he would enjoy flying in a cool looking ship such as a myrmidon... i don't know, we'll discuss those things together. But at least thanks to your answers i'll be able to clearly explain him the options (:

Thanks again !


(by the way i'm interested in ideas for fittings, for those who wanted to post some :)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-15 12:47:24 UTC
Cheapo throw away stuff every gang like it when they are lucky enough to have some?

T1 frigs interceptor style or EWAR style

T1 cruisers, remote rep or remote energy, ecm

By the time you have enough skills to properly fit/fly those you'll learn a lot of stuff.

Surviving, D-Scan, Intell, support etc.

The faster you'll start being killed the faster you'll learn eve and enjoy the real eve where being killed is part of the game.