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plz remove Tengu from this game.
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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-13 18:12:20 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


While I'm fairly new at EVE, always assumed ever-changing fleet doctrines and misinformation defined popularity.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Yatama Kautsuo
Tencus
#22 - 2012-07-13 18:20:22 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


Spacesubmarine B is obviously in pink color. No one likes that.
Kalli Brixzat
#23 - 2012-07-13 18:28:58 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
[quote=Muad 'dib]

The thing about the Tengu is that it is part of the Strategic Cruiser group of ships and it vastly outperforms them all in terms of general PvE effectiveness.


Yet, it's not as effective in PvP as either the Loki or Proteus, can't do Incursions like a Legion, (effectively) carries no drones, and does not have the best (or second best) raw DPS potential.

So, in other words, all the T3's have their place based on what you want to do with them. To say that the Tengu is THE BEST option for all PvE is plain wrong.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#24 - 2012-07-13 18:38:04 UTC
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


Spacesubmarine B is obviously in pink color. No one likes that.


What about my yellow submarine?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#25 - 2012-07-13 19:03:27 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


You're affirming the consequent. Observe:

1) Overpowered ships are popular.
2) The Tengu is popular.
3) Therefore, the Tengu is overpowered.

You're missing all of the other issues, both game and metagame, that might make the Tengu a popular choice.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#26 - 2012-07-13 19:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CorInaXeraL
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


You're missing all of the other issues, both game and metagame, that might make the Tengu a popular choice.[/quote]


You're creating a fallacy in arguments.

Just because
All overpowered ships are popular

does not mean

All popular ships are overpowered.

That's an argument string that's beaten into you at intro to critical thinking, and again in formal logic when you look at derivatives of argument strings.


I'd try proving your point via other means.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2012-07-13 19:22:30 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:

Yet, it's not as effective in PvP as either the Loki or Proteus, can't do Incursions like a Legion, (effectively) carries no drones, and does not have the best (or second best) raw DPS potential.
.


Wrong on all counts friend.

Never heard of the HAM Tengu? 1000+ dps with heat. Good luck getting that out of a Loki or Legion, or getting it at anything close to the same range with a proteus.

Ok well not all counts. You're right it doesn't carry drones.....
Alexander Sinclair
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-07-13 19:27:54 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
Please CCP buff other Strat cruisers to stop the whine threads! Leave the Tengu alone!


They aren't touching the Tengu even though I'm pretty sure CCP knows it made a mistake with modular ship and isn't going to be adding any more atleast not for a very long time.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-07-13 19:34:11 UTC
Alexander Sinclair wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
Please CCP buff other Strat cruisers to stop the whine threads! Leave the Tengu alone!


They aren't touching the Tengu even though I'm pretty sure CCP knows it made a mistake with modular ship and isn't going to be adding any more atleast not for a very long time.


Why was it a mistake? T3s are great and very widely used.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-07-13 19:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
tengu is the hulk of pve?

ban hulks too, as they are the best miners.


If there were three other Hulk-like ships that cost the same in time/cost your argument might have held water.

The reality is there aren't any,, so your argument is utter bovine faecal matter.

The thing about the Tengu is that it is part of the Strategic Cruiser group of ships and it vastly outperforms them all in terms of general PvE effectiveness.


Wrong, Heavy Missiles outperform all other weapon systems in PVE, hey they have to do something well. Heavy missiles and a solid tank are the reason Drakes can do any lvl 4 mission too. The Drake and the Tengue play vary similarly.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#31 - 2012-07-13 20:31:18 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Wrong, Heavy Missiles outperform all other weapon systems in PVE, hey they have to do something well. Heavy missiles and a solid tank are the reason Drakes can do any lvl 4 mission too. The Drake and the Tengue play vary similarly.


And by "all other weapon systems" I assume you mean "all other medium weapon systems". Because otherwise this is just plain wrong.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-07-13 21:22:28 UTC
yeah remove one of the best caldarii ships in the game(witch aint hard seing as its caldari) incase you havent noticed most other ships on all classes hvae been and even after rebalanceing are still out performing others and not only in the caldari side and your really moaning about the tengu ?

Whats next ban the cnr cause with 2 bill isk you can give it the same kinda performance in pve situations ?
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#33 - 2012-07-13 21:56:26 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:


If there were three other Hulk-like ships that cost the same in time/cost your argument might have held water.

The reality is there aren't any,, so your argument is utter bovine faecal matter.

The thing about the Tengu is that it is part of the Strategic Cruiser group of ships and it vastly outperforms them all in terms of general PvE effectiveness.


I would love to see a Tengu outperform all other PVE boats in PVE. What ship holds the current records for completion times?
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#34 - 2012-07-13 22:11:09 UTC
Overpowered-ness isn't really the issue. Popularity is, in fact, a problem, because if I'm even remotely right about CCP's motives ,(hrmmm...) they do not want one type of ship to be flown exponentially more often than all of the others - especially the others in the same class. The Tengu is a problem; luckily, they're working on it. They even acknowledged that it's not balanced themselves.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Mer'Kaba
Red Eyed Logi
#35 - 2012-07-13 23:04:03 UTC
Mercury Alar wrote:
if u want to run mission ,fly tengu
if u want to get DED in high/low sec even in null sec(ninja) ,fly tengu

so tengu is PVE

it has broken the balance of this game

for the variety REMOVE IT.THX



Posting in LOL thread. Learn to spell. thanks

Leave Tengu alone, it's fine and there are better ships out there for missions and ratting. Besides it's so easy to kill them when they're out PVEing it's ridiculous.

But yay! LOL thread post ftw
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-07-13 23:17:11 UTC
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:
Spacesubmarine B is obviously in pink color. No one likes that.

Based on the popularity of those old Hello Kitty apocalypse and kestrel mock-ups, I think you might have it backwards.

Cameron Cahill wrote:
Alexander Sinclair wrote:
They aren't touching the Tengu even though I'm pretty sure CCP knows it made a mistake with modular ship and isn't going to be adding any more atleast not for a very long time.


Why was it a mistake? T3s are great and very widely used.

What I think was being implied, and at least what I see, is that T3s are great and very widely used, in a relatively small number of configurations. There are lots of configurations, even lots of subsystems that are just outright bad. According to CCP's dev blogs the T3s are supposed to be supergeneralists, able to fulfill nearly any role to a respectable degree. Instead they're pretty much just T2++, outdoing the superspecialists at their specialities.

Regardless, they're starting a sweeping rebalance, frigates, destroyers and mining barges are coming this winter, cruisers will follow afterwards. I think we can expect some very large changes to how T3s operate in general when that comes, so I think it would be most prudent to simply wait at this point. Unless they're doing something very, very wrong, we'll be given then chance to test the changes and give our input well before they're finalized.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-07-14 04:58:43 UTC
CCP Remove all content in this Game.
Seriously, removing something because its better than something else will result in literally nothing left.

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
Kalli Brixzat
#38 - 2012-07-14 06:26:25 UTC
Mira Lynne wrote:
CCP Remove all content in this Game.
Seriously, removing something because its better than something else will result in literally nothing left.


The Tengu will be left. Thousands and thousands of Tengus.

Am i doing it right?
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-07-14 08:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:


If there were three other Hulk-like ships that cost the same in time/cost your argument might have held water.

The reality is there aren't any,, so your argument is utter bovine faecal matter.

The thing about the Tengu is that it is part of the Strategic Cruiser group of ships and it vastly outperforms them all in terms of general PvE effectiveness.


I would love to see a Tengu outperform all other PVE boats in PVE. What ship holds the current records for completion times?


Are you really this dumb? The Tengu isn't supposed to be compared to all other PvE ships. It should only be compared to other Strategic Cruisers because of the same training. Roll

CorInaXeraL wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Popularity should never be a factor when it comes to balance.


Popularity is a sign that something is imbalanced.

If people chose Spacesubmarine A over Spacesubmarine B, then there is an obvious issue here.


You're missing all of the other issues, both game and metagame, that might make the Tengu a popular choice.


You're creating a fallacy in arguments.

Just because
All overpowered ships are popular

does not mean

All popular ships are overpowered.

That's an argument string that's beaten into you at intro to critical thinking, and again in formal logic when you look at derivatives of argument strings.


I'd try proving your point via other means.
[/quote][/quote]


I didn't claim that all popular ships are overpowered.

Learn2read. Or perhaps you did read by choose to ignore.

I said that popularity is an indicator of imbalance and the reason why certain ships are more popular warrants investigation.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Boomhaur
#40 - 2012-07-14 09:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Boomhaur
Nerf the freaking Tengu it's OP, the thing can mine in complete safety in Hi Sec with the following build. I has over 98k EHP ON THE LOWEST RESIST!! Thats over 9000!!


[Tengu, Mining Tengu OMGWTFPWN!!]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

6 Miner II's on a strategic cruiser, with 2x mining laser upgrade II, can you say OP. I can, miners will start replacing their Hulks with this bad boy once they find out what this thing can do. Ohh did I mention that it take no less than 5 Tornados to take it down under best case scenereo (though realistically more) in hi sec, these miners be able to mine in perfect safety in Hi Sec.

SO NERF THIS SHIP IT"S MAKES MINING OP!!

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.