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Sig Radius and tanking
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Nissan Truck
Abrasive Industries
#1 - 2012-07-12 07:15:46 UTC
So I have been trying to fit a Gila for some WH action. I have been playing around with the fits,and can Get a very good omni- tank for a cruiser at about 730 omni. only problem is that the sig radius of the cruiser is then about 300.

Question I have here. Is it more important to have a smaller sig radius and sacrifice tank? or perhaps to find a solid median between sig radius and tank? or just go all tank?

This question is specifically directed towards Sleeper combat



Thanks
JahMun
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-07-12 08:44:40 UTC
From what I've seen it does matter. The sleeper Battleships fire missiles as well and the damage on those seems to directly scale with sigradius. I've had a Golem join our plex fleet once, its the caldari T2 battleship with a default sigradius of 575m and it was receiving rediculous hits.

But as long as you don't use modules that massively increase sigradius like MWD, it's probably still better to go full tank.
Vjorn Angannon
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#3 - 2012-07-12 08:51:34 UTC
That question really depends upon the ship you're flying, and what you want to do with it.

In any case, when people refer to sig-tanking, they actually mean (signature radius+speed+transversal) tanking. I.e.; a small(ish) sig radius going at a decent speed in a close enough (or perhaps even far enough) orbit to keep either the guns from tracking well, or limiting some of the damage from missile spam (or both); depending upon weapon size of the target.

In the gilla, if you are going to be using sentries against sleepers, you are going to be a sitting duck....or lose your sentries within a few short minutes. So in this case, I'd be more concerned with tank (and perhaps damage mods) depending on class of w-system you're in.

Since Agony Unleashed has opened their wiki to the public, here is a great article on tracking.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2012-07-12 14:39:56 UTC
Sig radius (except in some outlier cases) is a bit redundant against sleepers as any situation where your really needing to tank will have waves of sleepers who will web you down massively and the slower your speed the less sig counts for anything in the tracking formula.
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-12 15:13:48 UTC
If you're sitting stationary, don't worry about your sig radius. The majority of the dps in C1-C3 sites comes from turrets and sub-bs missiles. If you're stationary, the sleeper turrets can hit you almost irregardless of your sig. The reduction in damage from sleeper BS missiles is negligible.

If you're speed tanking, the signature radius starts to make a huge difference. Sleeper damage is significantly reduced with a speed to sig of 10, and is practically zero with a speed to sig of around 20.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#6 - 2012-07-12 15:42:26 UTC
I was told a while back you can't speed tank Sleepers... I dunno... I don't Pve very much :|

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-07-12 15:50:07 UTC
I've run every kind of site in a C3 solo in a 100mn tengu with t2 links on a BC. Only site that's even mildly difficult is the mag site with triple Upholder spawn, and those you just have to orbit out of their neut range. Pretty decent isk/hr, and you can fight pretty much anyone that shows up.
Nissan Truck
Abrasive Industries
#8 - 2012-07-12 18:19:00 UTC
Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it. I have one more question for you though.

Lets say this question directly applies to the Gila. Its sig radius is about 180 base. Do you think it wise to try and speed tank it against sleepers? or use an all out omni tank of about 720? and would 720 bee enough for most sleeper sites C3 and lower?


Thanks again,
chris elliot
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#9 - 2012-07-12 20:21:15 UTC
Confirming you can speed tank sleepers in rifters and blackbirds.

As for nissan. Just go for straight tank. If you want some kind of movement orbit one of your drones nice and close.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#10 - 2012-07-12 20:47:33 UTC
Nissan Truck wrote:
Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it. I have one more question for you though.

Lets say this question directly applies to the Gila. Its sig radius is about 180 base. Do you think it wise to try and speed tank it against sleepers? or use an all out omni tank of about 720? and would 720 bee enough for most sleeper sites C3 and lower?


Thanks again,


Brick tank gila is enough for all but the last waves on:

Unsecured Frontier Database
Forgotten Frontier Recursive Depot

Where you will have to kill the scram frigs ASAP so you can warp if your not killing the BS fast enough (they do over 1000dps).
Nissan Truck
Abrasive Industries
#11 - 2012-07-12 22:33:33 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Nissan Truck wrote:
Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it. I have one more question for you though.

Lets say this question directly applies to the Gila. Its sig radius is about 180 base. Do you think it wise to try and speed tank it against sleepers? or use an all out omni tank of about 720? and would 720 bee enough for most sleeper sites C3 and lower?


Thanks again,


Brick tank gila is enough for all but the last waves on:

Unsecured Frontier Database
Forgotten Frontier Recursive Depot

Where you will have to kill the scram frigs ASAP so you can warp if your not killing the BS fast enough (they do over 1000dps).


Thank you very much for that info! by brick tank, you mean just sitting there right? no speed, just all omni tanked?
Rhett Riever
#12 - 2012-07-27 16:41:34 UTC
I saw a blog once that might be relevant, look up 'Jester's Trek' and in his Guide to Incursions (Pt 1 iirc) there is a little bit of talk about EHP and sig radius. Maybe it'll help - the Incursion Sansha have been compared to Sleeper rats in the past.

And I've talked to a guy who solo'd C3 in a Gila, he said he just dropped sentries and orbited those.
You could test it on Sisi before you spend real isk, but sometimes finding a w-hole there is a pain. It was a good time ago and the sites have changed since.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-07-27 16:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zicon Shak'ra
Alice Saki wrote:
I was told a while back you can't speed tank Sleepers... I dunno... I don't Pve very much :|


This is mostly true. The only thing that can do it to some extent is a 100MN Tengu built for kiting, as it can reduce the damage with small sig + fast speed, and tank the rest. Anything smaller and faster won't have enough actual tank, and anything larger won't have enough speed to consider it sig tanking.

Edit: Also, to OP, that tank with that sig radius will run all the C3 anoms and the easier mag/radar sites. Might be slow though. Get a Tengu. Big smile

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?