Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This.

And the simple fact that eve players dont like having features, especially those they have become accustomed too, taken away. Just look at what happened when you couldnt spin your ship anymore?

If you could train all three alts on a single account then that would make it nearly pointless to have multiple accounts (assuming you have less than 3 alts) and would force people to spend another $20 on character transfers per character to move them to the main account.

Whilst I can understand you questioning the skill progression system in EvE, coming from WoW as you have, what I can't understand is your beligerant refusal to accept that the reason it's this way is because that's how it works best for the game as a whole. You seem to think that you, having considered this for all of a few weeks, know better than the people who originally designed the game and the thousands upon thousands of predominantly intelligent people who've played and helped develop the game since its inception.

I've read this thread. You've had all the reasons explained to you and yet you persist in demanding that everyone else is wrong and you're right. How many people in this thread have agreed with you? None. This should tell you something although it appears to have completely passed you by.

Your suggestion that WoW is like EvE is laughable. I've played WoW for some time. It's what I do when I don't want to use my brain. If you wish to see what is generally accepted as the difference between WoW and EvE do a google search for "learning curves of popular mmorpg". They are in completely different leagues.

You also claim that CCP should take a lesson from Blizzard. Well, quantity does not equal quality as exemplified by WoW. It's a game for the masses which requires only a modicum of intelligence to understand and play. It's not a sandbox. It's a hand-holding theme park.

You repeatedly state that because you can max level a character in WoW in a day (where's the fun in that?) you should be able to level up 3 characters in eve simultaneously. How are you reaching this conclusion? The progression systems are completely different. It's like me saying that because when playing rugby I can carry the ball I also should be able to in football(soccer). They're completely different games with different rules.

Perhaps you should concentrate more on playing the game than on complaining about core aspects which simply aren't going to get changed because one person, who clearly doesn't understand them, whines on the forum.

Or, as previously stated, go back to WoW.

Would you be ok with the ability to train all 3 slots on your account at once at the cost of all training times increasing 3x?

I have played WoW at an endgame raiding level and while I wasn't in an elite guild we cleared everything except the Lich King in Icecrown 25 hard modes. At the end of Wrath I was unemployed and had a level 80 of every class. WoW alts allow you to do something you can't do on your main, whether that be playing a different class or faction or server (although I hear a lot of that is possible now with paid transfers). Eve alts allow you to do something you can't do right now on your main, go somewhere dangerous, fly something different. In Eve theres nothing you can't do with a character, just stuff you can't do yet. If I want to get into industry I have a choice. I can train an alt for it, pausing training on my main, I can train my main for it or I can pay CCP for another account.

CCP have decided on a rate of training that keeps people interested and for the most part its worked. Eve has a much healthier subscriber curve than most MMOs. Allowing 3 training queues per account effectively reduces the time it takes for you to reach goals and as Blizzard are finding out, if you make goals too easily achievable you'd better have something harder for people to aim for or they'll get bored and leave.

Sure, I have 4 accounts but a lot of that has to do with wanting 4 characters logged in at once. When I started my second account back in 2006 I needed to be able to run freighter logistics in empire at the same time as FCing fleets in 0.0. My third account came when the second pilot joined Goonfleet for 0.0 freighter logistics and I needed a neutral pilot for empire. Both those accounts now have research and manufacturing characters in the other 2 spots and the two "main" characters now fly dreads. But thats more a side effect of needing to train something to justify keeping the account subbed than any strong desire on my part to triple box dreads. The fourth account is because I want a Tengu to PvE in when my caps are deployed.

Yeep is pretty close to a perfect Moros pilot but my two alts have the bare minimum skills for reimbursement. That doesn't stop me taking them out and having fun. If not having perfect skills is stopping you trying something in Eve you're going to be miserable. You need to set goals based around achievement rather than numbers on a character sheet. To put it in WoW terms you should aim to clear bosses, not for a high average iLevel. Skillpoints (like gear) are a means to an end, not the end itself.

I think, contrary to your final statement, that providing people with 3 training queues per account would provide more short term gain at the expense of sustainability. The faster people train skills the more content CCP has to add to constantly provide them with carrots to chase. Right now people are getting that training speed via multiple accounts. If they don't have to do that any more CCP lose the income stream multiple subscriptions provide while also having to create content faster to account for all the new characters in training.

As for the free to play thing, a lot of MMOs take that route because they tried to compete with WoW and failed. If you go after WoW players you're going to have to compete with Blizzard's 10 year headstart and incredible budget for content and nobody can do that so they're left with trying to compete on price. One of the reasons Eve has managed steady growth for most of it's life is there isn't really anything else like it.

Allowing alt training on the same account would still cut significantly. into CCPs income (specifically from all those folks who train alts just to sell on the EVE character market). For that reason alone, it will never happen.

The problem you have Smapty is that you are simply comparing WoW and Eve far too much. Although I appreciate that you clearly say that the two are very different, the fact remains that your mindset is still on WoW and other MMOs - which Eve really doesn't resemble and should not be compared to. Indeed, this is the Iron Chef of the restaurant world and we like having our 50 loyal customers that enjoy fine food and good taste, as opposed to simplicity and speed offered by McDonalds.

Once you understand this mindset, you will appreciate why most of the player base will vehemently object to making changes to the current 'alt' system.

Let's put it this way - all arguments aside:

You aren't wrong in saying that there may be logic in allowing simultaneous training on all 3 character (alt) slots. The math may even work out. However, it goes against what Eve is and what it is designed for. I believe that the DEVs noted at one point that allowing 3 character slots for each account was a mistake. It’s not meant to be easy to access all aspect of the game and speed-level on one character.

I generally dislike using this logic but at times it's just the way it is - and the more you play Eve and realise that it's really not about grinding up to a certain level and/or having everything maxed out, you will likewise see the validity of the feedback provided by the rest of the community.

It may take a bit to beat the 'completion-ist' out of your system but you will learn.

P.S. It's nice to see a coherent argument being put forward though - generally any mention of WoW and people start bombarding the thread with gtfo's.

You forget the people who make alts to sell. And those who skill up alts for specific purposes, like dying a lot.