Market Discussions

It doesn't trouble me whatever you choose to call it, provided we understand what you mean.


I too am not a professional, nor am I widely read on the subject. In fact I lived with this bizarre selection of mental defects for most of my life without any of it being medically diagnosed until relatively recently, subsequent to my being hospitalized by a seizure. After being extensively poked, prodded, probed, scanned and tested I was then presented with a comprehensive and somewhat bewildering diagnosis. It's nice to know a little more about what makes you the way you are. I certainly prefer knowing that I have X, Y and Z condition rather than simply considering myself to be a bit thick and slightly funny in the head.

Block ...if that was in anyway response to my posts in this thread or asking why this thread was in Market place....


my posting here was an error. and retracted any proposals in market place(which was a separate thread)


Posted in this thread=

#13 Posted: 2012.07.12 05:01 | Report
my gosh I intended this thread to go into general discussion.



I guess it happens...lol


some of the discussion took different directions...but if you would like me to explain why I used dyslexia as a part of the story included I'll just say.... Dyslexia was not meant to take a huge role in the point I was making...but apparently people are reading into it that way. My intention was much more focused to explain the dynamics of the community with Scamming and trolling as major players in the overall equation.

I did the best i could. And of course even that it is not enough and will invite more trolling in a way kind of reiterates my point and story.

I retracted any proposals in market place(which was a separate thread).


keep your 10b isk...I do not want any of it and would return it to you even if you sent 20b isk.

The difference I see there is: In GTA you steal NPC cars, Hitman kills NPCs, Total War extincts whole civilizations of NPCs.

Why should anybody care what you do to NPCs? Also in EVE nobody calls you psycho for running missions. So your comparison is pretty weak.

I do understand your point on being a scammer though. It's allowed in EVE. Part of the game.

Mental disorder indicates a psychological issue, not a perception issue.

Examples of Mental Disorders: schizophrenia, bi-polar, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder.

rightfully so.

Apart from the obvious potential for defrauding any such fund it would also have to deal with the problem of moral hazard.

In EVE the line between purely ingame interactions and out of game interactions is very blurred and there is also a frequent asymmetry between the approach to the game of different groups of players. When you socially engineer a situation to scam someone in EVE you are not carrying out a purely ingame action; you are engineering the person who plays the game. Now, this is not necessarily a problem. If everyone goes into the game with the same set of expectations and does not expect any of the human interaction in the game to be in any way meaningful in real life then no one is going to get hurt by such actions. But in EVE quite a lot of players do not compartmentalise things in this way. Many people think they can establish meaningful out of game relationships with players they interact with, relationships that transcend the game. And when someone takes advantage of these relationships that causes real world pain and distress because the person has been taken advantage of as a person and not as a character in a game. At least that is how those with this approach (the majority of EVE players in my experience) will experience it.

On the other hand, those who do approach the game as a hermetically sealed experience in which EVERYTHING that happens in the game is merely part of the game do not, quite reasonably, think of their actions as having any out of game consequences, or they think that even if some people do get hurt out of game then that's their own fault for playing the game in the wrong way. There is no real reason that these people should constrain their style of play because some other people won't play the same way. As far as I can tell, Bobby falls into this category of players for whom any real life distress is collateral damage that is ultimately the responsibility of the person who has opted to place real life value on ingame interactions.

Personally, I think that this kind of approach is fine and that it would be unreasonable to expect everyone to refuse to role-play in a game just because the majority of players do not role-play or only role-play in a minimalist way. Unfortunately, I think one of the reasons people tend to give scammers like BB a hard time is because he actually represents a minority in his field. As far as I can see, the majority of scammers and griefers in this game (or at least the most vocal and organised of them) DO think that there are meaningful human interactions involved and do think that they are dealing with an out of game human rather than an ingame character, and they do take considerable pleasure from causing distress, annoyance and pain to the real human on the other end of the internet. They are either not role-playing or only role-playing in a minimalist way, just like their victims, and the pleasure they get comes from ******* someone over in real life using the game as a medium or tool. For these people it is perfectly reasonable to attach real life labels to them and to suggest that what they are doing is ethically dubious in real life. Bobby doesn't, I think, fall into this category but he gets tarred with the same brush because the only real way to tell him apart from what appears to be the majority is to have read some of his reflections on his own play style.

tl;dr
Some people in eve attach real life significance to their ingame interactions as being interactions between real people. Others use their ingame interactions to deliberately cause real life distress to other players. Yet others don't think that their interactions have any significance beyond the game. Because of these disparities of approaches and EVE's open system there is considerable scope for people to cause real (albeit relatively moderate) distress to people in real life either deliberately or accidentally.

4th and 5th graders are just learning to make an "h".... That school needs it's funding cut....

In all seriousness though, scamming is like anything else in this game.

You make a bad trade you learn and try not to repeat the mistake.

You enter combat and get blown up, you again try not to repeat the mistake.

You get scammed, you learn something and try not to repeat the mistake.

Let the people learn from their mistakes and improve, just like every other part of this game.

yes...I agree with the fact that people learn from their mistakes and improve...and that it is a part of the game. I also believe that some of the individuals that have been scammed could benefit from some support...maybe they would quit eve from the experience ...perhaps by gaining a sense or knowledge that people have the right to scam them in game and there are things to look for to prevent it in the future (In addition to perhaps get over their recent loss of isk).

Not all people "just learn from their mistakes and move on" ...and please don't quote this to amuse yourself with your own comments like..."yeah, it's because they are just plain stupid"..Please inflate your ego elsewhere.

Measuring intelligence by these factors is ignorant...it's part of my point.

I am not sure going on about this will help but...equally I am reluctant to call schizophrenia a perception disorder or perception impairment...

My reason for suggesting this is purely an attempt to share with you my reasoning for my choice of words.

(though if I opened a separate debate...I am willing to explain or engage as best i can)