EVE General Discussion

The capsuleers of New Eden are often referred to as being "immortal". This is because when they die, their brain data is preserved; instantaneously scanned and transmitted over subspace into a clone, who's brain is then shaped into a (nearly exact) replica of the original. However, this does not confer immortality upon capsuleers any more than building an exact replica of a house and then burning the original.

In a strictly material universe, where there are no angels, no devils, and no spirits; ie, nothing "super natural", the mind is dependent upon the material workings of the brain. Science backs this up; brain activity can be directly correlated to emotional states and bodily functions. When you excise portions of the brain, the person loses functioning. Learning causes the brain to "grow". Throughout the course of a lifetime, through the gains and losses of the brain, through memories forgotten and forged, a person has a persistent sense of "self", a common thread that weaves through the person's life story. This thread is the essence of subjective experience, of who we are, of being conscious. This thread, as far as we know, as linked directly to the matter of your brain. Your physical brain.

For lack of a better explanation you are your brain - your exact, precise brain that is in your skull at this exact moment. If your brain were to be scanned and duplicated exactly as it exists in this precise moment, the clone that awakened with that mind would not be you - you would still be sitting here, reading these words on the computer screen, and after a few moments, the clone's brain would begin to change as new memories and experiences, qualitatively and quantitatively different from your own, shaped the new mind. In 10, 20, 30 years, you and your clone might not even be recognizable as "the same person", anymore.

It is for this reason that the capsuleers of New Eden are not immortal at all; their brain data is copied from clone to clone, much the same way a file would be copied from computer to computer, and the clones may indeed remember being the person they purport to be - but for all intents and purposes, the capsuleers life ends with the breaching of his pod. He does not wake up in a new body - he simply ceases to exist.

The only way to gain this sort of immortality is if the original body were put into stasis, their brain scanned and transmitted to a clone. Brain state data from the clone would constantly be downloaded and uploaded into the original brain. In this way, YOU really would be able to wake up after a podding and still be you, with a persistent consciousness, between clones.

The components of your body are being continuously replaced.
You probably don't have many of the same cells from 10 years ago (if any?).
Only difference I see is the shortened time frame.

neither would your own.

its all about how you define identity, while you would be you, the clone would also be you, from its perspective, anyway.


heres a ponderance I thought of a while back, not related to eve, but in a general conciousness sense of things.

if you were a tree. you had all your awareness and cognizance, just in the "body" of a tree, your awareness rather than being specific to a brain, simply was.
and then someone came along and cut off your trunk at the ground.

then they transplanted the trunk into other dirt.
in this situation, the "you" of your above-ground half goes "aww damn, they cut off my roots, but I think i can grow some new ones" and start doing so.
at the same time, the below-ground part similarly thinks "damn, they cut off my trunk and branches. but I think I can grow new ones" and starts to do so.

now, which one is you?

both are.

if you went to sleep, were replicated, or your brain copied into a clone, and the original you kidnapped while still unconcious and woke up in a hospital, and the clone put in your bed, which one is the real you? from the perspective of both, each is the "real" you.

if one views the self as being transcendent of the individual host body, as long as the essential awareness remains, the difference between which copy of the host body it is, is inconsequential.

I think in essence, in eve-tech/world, capsuleers come to really be more of a meta-self that isn't particular to an individual personage.

its really very similar to the issue of transporters in star trek, that the "you" that comes out the other end of a transport isn't really you.

heres a copy of part of the note you are sent if they reverse a podding (such as due to a bug that your ship and pod are allowed to be destroyed when they shouldn't have been)

You ought to read Think Like A Dinosaur.

Not empty quoting.

On Caldari prime there is a natural rock formation that looks exactly like Queen Victoria.

Is it a statue of Queen Victoria?

CCP forgot to mention that your clones are just vessels to which you exert your consiousness into. These clones are actually telepathically linked to your real body, which is also stuck in a pod filled with goo but never leaves the pod. Whenever your clone dies, the data up until the moment of death is uploaded into your real body, then exerted into a new clone.

Problem solved.

Ushra'Khan: Formerly a PVP alliance, now branching out into philosophy.

I used to be [into philosophy] like you, but then I took an [existential nihilism] to the [sense of worth and being]

It's a fkn game....

/thread