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Overhaul: Transport Systems and Production Logistics / Supply Chains
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KayTwoEx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#21 - 2012-07-11 19:35:26 UTC
To bring it back to attention: any more ideas, additions, criticism?
Valk Enaka
Wohlstandsgesellschaft
#22 - 2012-07-11 19:53:14 UTC
Ok, so I like the thought of docking in carriers/supercapitals, but not sure on most of the rest of the stuff.

A thought on the movement of minerals, etc. The Iteron Mk IV Quafe Edition had a separate 10k m3 bay for cargo if I remember correctly. What about (in addition/instead of or something) if industrial ships had a separate larger cargo bay for just minerals? Not an ore bay like the new mining ships should have (also preventing it from being abused as a afk mining ship), but something to carry just minerals in? Just another idea.
KayTwoEx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#23 - 2012-07-11 20:02:49 UTC
Valk Enaka wrote:
Ok, so I like the thought of docking in carriers/supercapitals, but not sure on most of the rest of the stuff.

A thought on the movement of minerals, etc. The Iteron Mk IV Quafe Edition had a separate 10k m3 bay for cargo if I remember correctly. What about (in addition/instead of or something) if industrial ships had a separate larger cargo bay for just minerals? Not an ore bay like the new mining ships should have (also preventing it from being abused as a afk mining ship), but something to carry just minerals in? Just another idea.

You'd need to make a ship dedicated for only transporting minerals. There is nothing like that right now, transporting ORE is somewhat inefficient too and you can only compress ORE with a Rorqual. As long as you don't let ORE be compressed at normal stations too the ORE bay is not worth to be used to transport large quantities of minerals either.
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
#24 - 2012-09-12 08:58:53 UTC
Good post - the differences in volume between minerals used and volume of product is illogical and silly. So is, by the way, huge differences in constituent minerals between nearly similar products.

A simple way to address the issue could be to nerf reprocessing - e.g. to make sure that there ALWAYS was a substantial waste when reprocesssing items. Would be logical: irretrieviable parts, materials machined away during production, that kind of "reasons". Could be done from top, by a simple (assumedly) addition of a general reprocessing loss factor in addition to station-dependent factors. The outcry could be huge, but it would achieve some of the objectives. Wouldn't "heal" the general lack of logic, though - that would require combing through each individual module and rebalancing mineral in- and output.

I don't think making ships un-repackageable would be a good idea. That would mean you couldn't sell used ships, which wouldn't be logical either. But you might make them much more voluminous even in repackaged state (e.g. the mining barges are ridiculously dense when repackaged). Exception might be shuttles - i makes sense to carry a small boat for fast trips.

A belated response, I know. You may see it, or you may not..
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#25 - 2012-09-13 17:07:31 UTC

Eve Mineral compression

I have a couple points to add:

1.) In my personal opinion, you're addressing the issue from the wrong angle. While, from a purely practical purpose, it doesn't make a lot of sense to ship assembled cars to North Korea, just so they can be melted down and turned into tanks, although there are a few reasons this might happen in real life: Embargoes, Shipping Requirements, etc... The biggest issue with in-game mineral compression is the lack of waste. A much, much simpler solution than adjusting all the sizes of modules and ammo and minerals, is to first increase the waste from refining (This was originally planned, and swept under the rug because it would significantly alter the influx of minerals from mission runners, but now t1 items no longer drop).

2.) The notion of compressing materials to be shipped more efficiently is extremely sound, and is done in real life all the time (although it's pretty much just part of the refining process now). In EvE, where we don't have the option of making Trit Bars for transport, modules have taken their place. And so what, we don't have 500 to 1 compression anymore (this was removed from the game years ago)! I'd personally keep mineral compression is a viable and active part of the eve economy, but make it more "controlled". Create a method to make Mineral Bars with a 30:1 compression ratio. Have them only manufacture-able in special POS arrays and Rorquals, and standardize the compression economy.

3.) Creating local industry for the creation of modules and ships requires quite a bit more than making the movement of minerals easier and modules harder. While the ease of logistics is a big role, it's the NEED to move materials that's the biggest issue. Highsec Industry not only benefits from concord protections, but they have unlimited manufacturing spots available and extremely easy access to market hub supplies.
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