EVE General Discussion

can any one explain what the op's point is? i read the post 4 times and couldn't find a single point, it was just incoherent babble.

meh, it's no secret to any one with a brain that the mackinaw will be the least useful of the 3 mining barges after the winter.

the difference is though, an expanded hulk will have less ehp and ore bay even at it's max cargo capacity, to do that you're sacrificing MLU IIs, in comparison the mackinaw will have a bigger ore bay than the hulk will have in total + the cargo bay + will be able to pack MLU IIs in the lows. with the mlus and the ore bay it'll probably end up doing both things better than a hulk.
then again, what do you expect when you try and force a hulk to do some thing it isn't intended to do? the hulk isn't supposed to be a pseudo industrial ship like the mackinaw, it's meant to be a rock chewing behemoth.

in short the mackinaw will be the best at it's role, however it's unique role is that unappealing i forsee it being the most underused ship outside of any one with a brain cell.

Given the popularity of the 2x Expanded Cargohold Hulk right now, I think the Mack's going to have a fair bit of appeal.

i don't always mine tabbed out or afk, but but i'm glad they have finally accepted the need for s hip that suits those needs to be available. if its less yield that's understandable, but everyone has those days where they'd like to mine a little and make some isk while they read the news or whatever. i have recently started multitasking within eve and have grown fond of ice mining simply for its lack of micromanagement while i do other things on another account. ice mining is less isk than mining but far less effort. there should be a form of mining thats similar to ice mining in effort and isk. id gladly sacrifice the third turret for a ship that only needs be checked every 5-10 minutes or so.

edit: when i said there should be a form of mining similar to ice mining i envision the new larger ore bay barge or whatever to nicely fill that role

How else do you propose to get a representative sampling of HS miner's fits?

It's not HAG, it's the Mining Census.

i won't deny that before hulkageddon, and when i didn't know better i was using a 17km3 expanded hulk to mine, then i realised i was going to make more per hour with MLU IIs in the lows, especially when i was hauling up to 5 cans at a time with an orca.
unless the lowest ehp mining barge is being buffed to the point where it'll take more than a catalyst to gank it, then you're going to be wanting a skiff. (infact, as some one with only one account i'm considering mining with a skiff in 0.0 to tank the rats because my poor ass can't afford a faction booster) if you're mining in a fleet then you want the hulk as it's going to outmine everything.

i'm not sure there's a single situation where i would rather have a big ore bay instead of amazing tank or amazing yield. even more so if all the barges/exhumers retain their current cargo bay in addition to the new ore bays.

but it takes 3 seconds every 6 mins to drag 2 cycles of ore to a jetcan. are you really going to sacrifice extra yield for the sake of 3 seconds whilst also pointing a gigantic "i'm afk come and gank me" bullseye on your ship?

Considering the popularity of fits that let you avoid doing that (or, perhaps more likely, which lets you avoid dealing with canflippers), a lot of people certainly will.

Anyway, the whole upset is due to CCP choosing not to give one ship all three characteristics, but rather try to give all six (soon to be seven) mining ships a role. The miners' wish was always just a straight-up buff to the Hulk, exactly because they didn't want to have to choose.

While Procurer/Skiff is the most defensive mining barge, it also has the lowest mining output. The Retriever/Mackinaw has less ehp, but more ore hold and mining output.

I do agree that the usefulness of the Retriever/Mackinaw heavily depends on play style, weather or not you have someone to haul and how close it comes to the hulk in mining output. If the hulk is miles ahead in mining output the Retriever/Mackinaw is not very useful, unless you don't have someone to haul ore.

the only real difference is the time it takes you to switch to an industrial ship and back, if that's taking you more than 3 mins (one cycle) then you're probably doing it wrong.

that's what, 1 cycle an hour, 1/20...5% that's the difference in yield for one ship to give more m3/hour than the other. assuming you're hauling every hour. (which is what i do or i end up with too many jetcans to keep track of)

ccp also said they want to make all the ships within an acceptable margin of the hulk. besides, with minmatar industrial 4, t1 rigs, t2 expanders, a mammoth will scoop about a whole jetcan at once without much time investment unlike an itty V. therefore the mackinaw will only really be a viable option for people who are new. then again, i'm sure you can probably train for a mammoth before you can afford a mackinaw if you're new.

i really just can't shake the feeling that the mackinaw could offer so much more than being an expensive hauler.