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The new mining barge expansion.
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Alara IonStorm
#41 - 2012-07-09 06:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Breezly Brewin wrote:
mithril*
if i flew a ship into azeroth it would be a covetor so when i got ganked by undead rogues it wouldnt be a major loss
but i may keep a vexor in the orca's ship maintenance to pwn said undead rogues with hammerheads

Just vacuum up the Cities and turn them into sweet, sweet Minerals. Whatever is left your Drones will get.

Leave one auction house standing so you can sell back there game.
pussnheels
Viziam
#42 - 2012-07-09 06:28:19 UTC
As far i understand the hulkj isn't being nerfed except they will get a smaller orebay instead of a cargo bay making them the ship to use in mining ops with orca and hauler support

and as far i can make out it is only the retriever and mack that will get a serious boost in armour and a slightly better yield making them more viable,and more accesiable for newer players, most important is that new players who want to become the next mining mongol can now concentrate their skills on mining only instead of training for a mining cruiser

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-07-09 06:30:07 UTC
rodyas wrote:
So what I really worry about, is now CCP is just gonna force us to. Now we do have to sacrifice ore input for armor, or we have to sacrifice cargo hold for nothing. After fighting trolls for so long, CCP is just gonna doomsday our mining barges and force us to be twinks instead of miners.


You are not being forced to anything, two ships are just being redesigned so one has more or space and the other has more ehp. The Hulk will remain the best mining ship is terms of output, the other ships are just being changed from being completely useless, to have some situational but still practical bonus. Battleship ehp can have it's advantages, it's probably nice to have during hulkaggeddon. The jet can size ore hold can be useful for afk miners, or players who don't have a alt or friend to haul ore for them.

Most miners was hoping for something that would increase mining output, making it possible to make more isk mining, primarily in hi-sec. The hulk is not really getting anything, so in terms of income nothing is really going to change, which i guess is why many miners ain't to happy with the new ships.

The patch is going to make it easier to get into mining, which is a good thing, but it changes very little or nothing for hulk miners.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#44 - 2012-07-09 06:54:23 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ But they are european. Sure they need money to buy beer, so you would think that would work, or their economies would improve. But nope. They are poor, but still have beer. I don't know what weapon would work on CCP.


Theyve shown us in the past the wallet works wonders...
Summer of Rage anyone?

They were all about Incarna till the losses they took from that were felt

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-07-09 06:55:38 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ I suppose then, you whined for walking in stations. Justice does flow in this game.


Please provide links to the threads where I whined for walking in stations.


Just your general attitude mostly. Don't need links to prove everything, sometimes you can just see and tell.


If you plan on making habitual assumptions, you at least need something reliable to fall back on. I would argue that it was infact you, that whined for walking in stations. The monocle gives it away.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
#46 - 2012-07-09 06:55:54 UTC
i think i finally understand the OPs point. he is saying that after the hisec miners couldnt figure out to tank their boats and cried over being ganked ccp has created a high tank barge to do it for them. he does gloss over the fact that not every miner wants to simply fly "the best" mining ship and put all the rest on the shelf. he does say that he resisted tanking his own ship - as a royal "we" i must add, and seems to presume that all miners fit the exact same way and are incapable of choosing which ship is right for the job -post update. he neglects the fact that even with the current state of mining barges many people are quite capable of and do actually experiment different ships and setups consisting of the hulk, mackinaw and covetor - and maybe even retriever - so he is blaming his (our?) own failure to adapt for a change in which he will soon be forced to adapt to.

those of us that already enjoy the adaptive procedures look forward to this update.

did i get this correct?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#47 - 2012-07-09 06:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
dexington wrote:

Most miners was hoping for something that would increase mining output, making it possible to make more isk mining, primarily in hi-sec. The hulk is not really getting anything, so in terms of income nothing is really going to change, which i guess is why many miners ain't to happy with the new ships.


This shows that those miners are as dumb as subsidized farmers. Constantly striving to get modified laws to let them use less natural animals foods, to use genetically modified plants, to get milk quota lifted and all of this...


... so they can dump larger tons of useless stuff that gets totally diluted, depreciated (overproduction) and generally trashed, in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-07-09 07:03:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
dexington wrote:

Most miners was hoping for something that would increase mining output, making it possible to make more isk mining, primarily in hi-sec. The hulk is not really getting anything, so in terms of income nothing is really going to change, which i guess is why many miners ain't to happy with the new ships.


This shows that those miners are as dumb as subsidized farmers. Constantly striving to get modified laws to let them use less natural animals foods, to use genetically modified plants, to get milk quota lifted and all of this...


... so they can dump larger tons of useless stuff that gets totally diluted, depreciated (overproduction) and generally trashed, in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.


These same third would countries also tend to have very high populations. Perhaps if they didn't breed so much...

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alara IonStorm
#49 - 2012-07-09 07:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#50 - 2012-07-09 07:16:53 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.


I was not making a point about how those populations shall or shall not actually get these aids (in fact you created the argument by yourself) but about subsidized farmers...

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pussnheels
Viziam
#51 - 2012-07-09 07:21:20 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
dexington wrote:

Most miners was hoping for something that would increase mining output, making it possible to make more isk mining, primarily in hi-sec. The hulk is not really getting anything, so in terms of income nothing is really going to change, which i guess is why many miners ain't to happy with the new ships.


This shows that those miners are as dumb as subsidized farmers. Constantly striving to get modified laws to let them use less natural animals foods, to use genetically modified plants, to get milk quota lifted and all of this...


... so they can dump larger tons of useless stuff that gets totally diluted, depreciated (overproduction) and generally trashed, in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.


I really resent your comment about subsidized farmers actually i resent your whole post , be glad that those miners in this game can keep the price of your pvp addiction low
Obvious have no idea what you are talking about

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Pipa Porto
#52 - 2012-07-09 07:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.


I was not making a point about how those populations shall or shall not actually get these aids (in fact you created the argument by yourself) but about subsidized farmers...


Subsidizing farming makes food Cheaper for Poor people by passing some of the cost to wealthier people (through taxes).

Makes food cheaper for poor people is the important societal good there. Subsidized farming is the reason why, in the US, you can feed yourself 2-3000kcal/day for about $6 a day, without having to spend any time or effort on cooking (poor people don't tend to have a lot of free time/energy for cooking).

But we're straying.

Yes, miners whine to get the rules changed. Always have, always will. Your point?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2012-07-09 07:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.


I was not making a point about how those populations shall or shall not actually get these aids (in fact you created the argument by yourself) but about subsidized farmers...

Then you shouldn't have mentioned the third world as a problem connected to that but you did.
Quote:
... so they can dump larger tons of useless stuff that gets totally diluted, depreciated (overproduction) and generally trashed, in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

As if this has anything to do with the over production of food.
Pipa Porto wrote:

Subsidizing farming makes food Cheaper for Poor people by passing some of the cost to wealthier people (through taxes).

Makes food cheaper for poor people is the important societal good there. Subsidized farming is the reason why, in the US, you can feed yourself 2-3000kcal/day for about $6 a day, without having to spend any time or effort on cooking (poor people don't tend to have a lot of free time/energy for cooking).

The more you produce the cheaper it gets for a whole number of reasons.

People only starve in first world nations from lack of information about where to get food when needed. Society is structured so that if you know where to go you can get access to it. Many of the very few who stave are unfortunately mentally ill.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#54 - 2012-07-09 07:29:19 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Was really looking forward to this. But after thinking about how bad unified inventory turned out as well as the LP in faction warfare. Well it was those thoughts as well as the new ore holds that don't expand at all. Sure this is mostly paranoia and we shall just see how good it is after it's implementation with little to no oversight.

But what really got me is this. Us miners could have always added more armor to our ships, or shrunk bays for more ore delivery, but we never chose to. It sucks a whole lot. Even more then mining, it sucks. Lots of players have been telling and cajoling us to do this, but we have always resisted doing it.

So what I really worry about, is now CCP is just gonna force us to. Now we do have to sacrifice ore input for armor, or we have to sacrifice cargo hold for nothing. After fighting trolls for so long, CCP is just gonna doomsday our mining barges and force us to be twinks instead of miners.

Seems like the mittani and the goons have finally won. If the goons don't blow ya up, CCP will come in and make your life a hell for avoiding their missles and bullets.

Suppose we should have seen it, with CCP always wanting us to be real men, but I just never paid enough attention, while mining bored.



I totaly agree with you, why should you have to choose between survivability and isk/hour? Its totally wrong. Hulks and mackinaws should be able to fit all cargo expanders and mining upgrades and also a full tank. And I mean a proper tank too, something like a full Scorpion or Abaddon level of tank.

There should also be supercarrier sized SuperHulks in hisec that can mine entire belts in one cycle. Freighters with 5 mids or 5 lows so we can tank those two adn possibly fighter size mining drones for the SuperHulk too, each with teh mining capacity of a Covetor. Only THEN will miners be happy. Go for it CCP, these changes are necessary.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#55 - 2012-07-09 07:31:21 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:



I totaly agree with you, why should you have to choose between survivability and isk/hour? Its totally wrong. Hulks and mackinaws should be able to fit all cargo expanders and mining upgrades and also a full tank. And I mean a proper tank too, something like a full Scorpion or Abaddon level of tank.

There should also be supercarrier sized SuperHulks in hisec that can mine entire belts in one cycle. Freighters with 5 mids or 5 lows so we can tank those two adn possibly fighter size mining drones for the SuperHulk too, each with teh mining capacity of a Covetor. Only THEN will miners be happy. Go for it CCP, these changes are necessary.


yeah this; no sarcasm either

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
#56 - 2012-07-09 07:34:25 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Was really looking forward to this. But after thinking about how bad unified inventory turned out as well as the LP in faction warfare. Well it was those thoughts as well as the new ore holds that don't expand at all. Sure this is mostly paranoia and we shall just see how good it is after it's implementation with little to no oversight.

But what really got me is this. Us miners could have always added more armor to our ships, or shrunk bays for more ore delivery, but we never chose to. It sucks a whole lot. Even more then mining, it sucks. Lots of players have been telling and cajoling us to do this, but we have always resisted doing it.

So what I really worry about, is now CCP is just gonna force us to. Now we do have to sacrifice ore input for armor, or we have to sacrifice cargo hold for nothing. After fighting trolls for so long, CCP is just gonna doomsday our mining barges and force us to be twinks instead of miners.

Seems like the mittani and the goons have finally won. If the goons don't blow ya up, CCP will come in and make your life a hell for avoiding their missles and bullets.

Suppose we should have seen it, with CCP always wanting us to be real men, but I just never paid enough attention, while mining bored.



I totaly agree with you, why should you have to choose between survivability and isk/hour? Its totally wrong. Hulks and mackinaws should be able to fit all cargo expanders and mining upgrades and also a full tank. And I mean a proper tank too, something like a full Scorpion or Abaddon level of tank.

There should also be supercarrier sized SuperHulks in hisec that can mine entire belts in one cycle. Freighters with 5 mids or 5 lows so we can tank those two adn possibly fighter size mining drones for the SuperHulk too, each with teh mining capacity of a Covetor. Only THEN will miners be happy. Go for it CCP, these changes are necessary.


still won't be enough (never enough) as by then minerals will be worthless and the miners won't understand why they have no iskies
Pipa Porto
#57 - 2012-07-09 07:37:07 UTC
Breezly Brewin wrote:

still won't be enough (never enough) as by then minerals will be worthless and the miners won't understand why they have no iskies


Titans for sale. 20b Isk each. Lol

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alara IonStorm
#58 - 2012-07-09 07:39:47 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:



I totaly agree with you, why should you have to choose between survivability and isk/hour? Its totally wrong. Hulks and mackinaws should be able to fit all cargo expanders and mining upgrades and also a full tank. And I mean a proper tank too, something like a full Scorpion or Abaddon level of tank.

There should also be supercarrier sized SuperHulks in hisec that can mine entire belts in one cycle. Freighters with 5 mids or 5 lows so we can tank those two adn possibly fighter size mining drones for the SuperHulk too, each with teh mining capacity of a Covetor. Only THEN will miners be happy. Go for it CCP, these changes are necessary.


yeah this; no sarcasm either

Sarcasm Meter [--------------------------------------------I--]

My equipment must be malfunctioning again. Sad
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#59 - 2012-07-09 08:36:22 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.


I was not making a point about how those populations shall or shall not actually get these aids (in fact you created the argument by yourself) but about subsidized farmers...


Subsidizing farming makes food Cheaper for Poor people by passing some of the cost to wealthier people (through taxes).

Makes food cheaper for poor people is the important societal good there. Subsidized farming is the reason why, in the US, you can feed yourself 2-3000kcal/day for about $6 a day, without having to spend any time or effort on cooking (poor people don't tend to have a lot of free time/energy for cooking).


Subsidizing drugs the economy to the point that new business can't compete unless they also get the subsidizing.
What subsidizing achieves is to keep alive non competitive business that should cease to exist and let more performing organizations take their place.

As for US subsidized farming, I don't know how it works. Here in EU there's a massive flood of abusively bad products from far east. Instead of forcing those products to be checked to measure to minimum standards they just pay farmers to (barely) stay alive. Result is, farmers barely survive and also adopt super-cheap worse products, bad products still flood from far east and EU states have to spend significant budget just to keep this ugly situation running.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#60 - 2012-07-09 08:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Then you shouldn't have mentioned the third world as a problem connected to that but you did.


The two sentences are not connected, you connect them because for some reason you feel they have to be connected.



Alara IonStorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
in the face of the third world populations dying of starvation.

All the food in the world is never going to help those people. The problem isn't starvation, starvation is just a byproduct of the corruption, instability and lack of a basic infrastructure.

Send them all that food and it will be hoarded, taken by warlords to feed there armies and even if it didn't it won't get to the people who need it most because they don't have the trucks, roads, fuel and railways to get it to the places where people are really starving.


That's why you never send hept directly thru these states organizations / boureaucracy but use more trusted volounteers / charities / missioneers and similar.

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