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Is there no way to keep both Minmatar and Amarr happy with me?
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Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-06-30 18:50:04 UTC
So I'm a Minmatar capsuleer in a Corporation that is based in Amarr space.

Because I was a newbie and didn't know better, I flew a lot of missions for Minmatar against Amarr prior to joining this Corporation, so my Amarr standing is horrible. So I did whatever I could and did as many missions for Amarr I could to get their Storyline missions (never did anything against Minmatar, always declined those missions) so after a while I was neutral to Amarr.

However, I then noticed my Minmatar standing had plummeted! So I did a lot of missions for Minmatar to get their storyline missions.

Now my standing with both factions is neutral/bad. I learnt that is is because Storyline missions have a negative impact towards the enemy faction, so when working with Amarr I lowered my Minmatar standing without knowing it (and vice versa).

So now I'm worried I might have screwed the pooch on this one....

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-06-30 18:57:05 UTC
It's possible, but it involves a TON of going back and forth between the two factions. If you do a few missions for one and then go back to the other for a few missions, you can slowly grind them both up. Look up the "Faction Standings Repair Plan" for more details (just Google it).
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-06-30 18:58:59 UTC
Seems like the negative have more effect than the positive.

I started out with good standing with Minmatar and so-so with Amarr.

Now I'm down to so-so with both factions.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2012-06-30 19:08:28 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Seems like the negative have more effect than the positive.

I started out with good standing with Minmatar and so-so with Amarr.

Now I'm down to so-so with both factions.


The negative is more pronounced when you have good standings and less so when it's bad. Positive standings are vice versa; larger gains when you have poor standings and smaller when they are more positive. This is because all gains/losses are based on the difference between current and 10.00. So while it's possible to get up to something like +6 with all empire factions, that's about where it tops out.

DMC should be along sometime to explain the details but there's the basic outline.
Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
#5 - 2012-06-30 19:20:19 UTC
You'll have to go back and forth between the two.

Decline any faction missions.

Once at a decent level, don't accept any storyline missions.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-01 02:05:28 UTC
Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way.

Also, train Connections lvl 5. Remap charisma. Leadership is good for you, be a leader.Big smile
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-02 07:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Along with what everyone else has said, don't forget to train up Diplomacy skill to raise your current negative standings.

Also it doesn't really take that long to repair negative standings.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Faction_Standing_Repair_Plan

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2012-07-02 10:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Doing storylines isn't the problem. You can't drop below -5.0 from doing just storylines alone.

The problem is destroying ships belonging to a player faction, or worse, destroying their structures.

So decline all missions, even storylines, that require you to shoot player faction stuff. You can easily identify these by the faction icon in mission reports (no faction icon means there will be no faction loss).

I do a lot of missions for Caldari and Amarr, including the Caldari epic arc, so the Gallente and Minmatar don't especially appreciate me. To keep my Gallente and Minmatar standing passable (I aim for above -2 though above -5 is adequate), I do storyline missions for Sisters of EVE. The Minmatar aren't as close to SoE as they are to Gallente, so it takes a lot of missions to fix that, but I've still managed to remain above -2.

The good point of SoE is that they don't lower Caldari and Amarr as much as other NPC corps. And since they are their own faction, storylines are always for SoE, so standing goes up fast with them, allowing you to do higher level missions sooner.

It is a lot faster though to bounce between opposing factions (Amarr / Minmatar, Caldari / Gallente), but it takes more care keeping everybody happy.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-02 22:05:39 UTC
As long as your standing with Amarr/Minmatar are above -2, you can do the Sisters of EVE epic arc (The Blood Stained Stars). Towards the end you chose one faction and that one goes up by 7% with no down for opposite factions. You can only do it every 3 months, and it is intended for newbie pilots flying frigates and destroyers. This link appears in one of the pages linked in the "faction repair guide" but might get lost among all the stuff to read. As befits a series of missions to help newbie pilots learn things, it will take you all over high sec space.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Blood-Stained_Stars

long walkthrough:
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/SOE_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v0.95.pdf

If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5.
Gokkehest
#10 - 2012-07-03 04:01:40 UTC
This was a nice read.

And Huttan thanks for the nice pdf, will sure use it.

+1 :)
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#11 - 2012-07-03 15:42:04 UTC
die heretic slave lover!
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-07-03 17:50:15 UTC
Faction repair plan for starters. Next, unless you love lazors, screw Amarr. Nothing fun in their space; even the COSMOS systems are boring. Move to Minnie space, join Minnie FW, do Minnie COSMOS missions, fly with awesome folks, and other really kewl stuff.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#13 - 2012-07-05 19:27:38 UTC
I'm in the exact same boat as you. (Minnie pilot now living in Amarr space)

I merely have one corporation in each region repped up to levels sufficient to my needs (perfect refining, jump clones). Even if my faction standings go down, my corp standings won't drop. As long as I keep myself above -2 (to avoid being shot at) I still maintain my benefits.

Granted, that won't help you if you need faction standings rather than just NPC corp standings...but there is a lot you can get done with just corp standings without worrying too much about faction, IMO.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-07-07 15:34:36 UTC
Katja Faith wrote:
Faction repair plan for starters. Next, unless you love lazors, screw Amarr. Nothing fun in their space; even the COSMOS systems are boring. Move to Minnie space, join Minnie FW, do Minnie COSMOS missions, fly with awesome folks, and other really kewl stuff.


Well, most in my corp are IRL friends, so... yeah.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#15 - 2012-07-07 16:11:03 UTC
Just pick sides. You're already picking sides against Angel Cartel and Sansha/Blood, who you could also get missions from. The inconveniences associated with picking sides are that you can't loiter in half of highsec: so no incursions, events, missions there. And even then, Diplomacy V goes a long, long way. The conveniences associated with picking sides are that you never have to bother 'balancing' your standings, that you can decline far fewer missions, that you can rapidly rise in standing with your favored side and unlock L4s/clones/epics/etc. everywhere in their space - rather than rise more slowly because you keep hitting yourself with negative derived standings. Everything is easier and better and faster if you pick sides - it's not just something that foolish rookies do, before they wise up. Additionally, if you pick sides, then you won't mind the primary penalty from FW (which is that normal FW activities will cause half of highsec to hate you) and you can make money in a relatively exciting environment while getting the largest standing gains in the game: the second promotion is already competitive with SoE's boost, with no social skills, with the result at the end that I could do L4s for any Amarr/Caldari corporation, without any of the grinding that you're wanting to do.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-07-07 16:35:27 UTC
If it was Gallente vs. Caldari I wouldn't be in this conundrum. But Amarr vs. Minmatar presents a problem because I love Minmatar, but to be with my Corp I have to be on Amarr's good side.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Josef Djugashvilis
#17 - 2012-07-07 19:05:30 UTC
Started as Gallente, moved to Amarr with old corp, now back in Gallente space, but at - 3.01 with them, so can only get level one missions with Gallente faction.
Would simply take to long to grind my way back up, would also negatively affect my Caldari standings, so have compromised by doing Caldaroi missions in Gallante space.
Heck, if only I could simply buy good Gallente standings.
Oh well.

This is not a signature.
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
#18 - 2012-07-08 18:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Revenald Blackthorne
sabre906 wrote:
Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way.


Empire EPIC arcs - don't they involve killing NPCs in opposing factions? For example, Caldari Epic involves killing Gallente ships? Wouldn't this damage yr standing with Gallente anyway, even without the "usual" derived standing hit in Storylines?

Huttan Funaila wrote:
If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5.


I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente.

By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-07-08 19:29:42 UTC
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way.


Empire EPIC arcs - don't they involve killing NPCs in opposing factions? For example, Caldari Epic involves killing Gallente ships? Wouldn't this damage yr standing with Gallente anyway, even without the "usual" derived standing hit in Storylines?

Huttan Funaila wrote:
If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5.


I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente.

By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.


Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned.
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
#20 - 2012-07-09 06:26:03 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned.


I have avoided running Empire Epics due to this misunderstanding, so am indebted to you for the clarification. Will give them a go (after a thorough read of the walkthrough) Pirate
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