Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Would be nice but instead of 3600 should have less HP than normal plate, 2.2K ?
But this will never happen anyway

Well that's fine, I merely wanted a discussion about a module of this kind. I tried to highlight very specifically what YOU would do to balance it. If my figures are OP, give some figures you think would be proper.

Well, let's see..

I do like the idea of a truely passive armor tank,

I'd imagine it being a module that solely adds armor regeneration without cap use, similar to a Shield Power Relay but without the loss of cap regen (which would be justified by the fact that all armor modules are low slot)

The regeneration would of course be based on the amount of armor on the ship, any set amount would lead to unbalance between ship classes.

Perhaps with power/cpu requirements similar to the Reactive Armor Hardener (24cpu/1pg)

Giving 0.75% armor regen per second at skill level 5

This may not sound like much, but on for example a harbinger with 2 800mm plates and 3 trimarks, this would equal almost 140 hp/sec regen.

Or a Megathron with 2 1600mm plates, 3 trimarks and 2 EANM II and a DC II, it would have 214.5 pure regen, aprox. 323 dps omnitank

Get a shield tank if you want regen.

Every time i see a thread about armor tanking, it always seems to be someone asking for armor tanks to be as good as they are now, but also do what shield tanks do.

When i started this game, people laughed at the idea of using shield tanks in PvP. They laughed at it. Now it's considered the thing to do. You know what's changed?

Nothing, the ships are all the same.

Shield passive regen is to make up for the deficit in buffer due to not having over sized shield extenders, and no Slaves. It is also useless in a fight unless you fit several modules to boost it, and even then only on a few ships. A DRAEK for example will use all of it's mids, all of its rigs plus 2 low slots to get a good passive tank for missions, and it is still not as good as an active tanked drake, AND it loses a chunk of DPS.

Just train shield tanking and quite crying about it. I've trained both, it only took a few weeks.

This would MAYBE work if the regen rate was inversely proportional to the size of the hull or (more sensibly) the size of the plate fitted.

Smaller plate = faster regen
Larger plate = slower regen

...unless i'm fantastically mistaken, this would solve the issues surrounding "armour regen" as a concern, provide better fights for frig pvp/e and not effect "real" pvp. Hell, you could even slap multiple small plates onto a BC using this equation and while you;d end up with an almost-acceptable armour regen/second, your damage would be horribly gimped.

Tbh tho i think the tanking is fine as-is. Armour ships are slow n heavy and can use lots of utilities - shield ships are nippy, regenerating damage protection but lack utility possibilities. It's a nice tradeoff that perhaps could even benefit from further diversity, but that's another post for another thread :)

Aside from the fact that armour will generally have more hitpoints?
Aside from the fact that armour cant have its resists neuted out (EANM vs Invul)?
Aside from the fact that slaves actually work on capital ships, where crystals dont.
Aside from the fact that armour has a different resist profile to shields, and doesn't have ANYTHING with 0% base resists?

Yup, armour tanking has nothing to recommend it.

I'm guessing that you're an armor tanker who is looking out for number 1 then?

So what is your solution? Because if your solution is yet another variant of 'I want what shield tanking gets!' then I'll pre-emptively ask you to leave and to make sure the door hits you on the way out.

I personally can and do fly both armor and shield tanks. They are useful for different things.

No solution offered. So it was just a case of 'I want what shield tanks get' who'd have thunk it?

Let's take a look at two different Harbinger fits. Shield gank and Brick tanked. For fairness' sake I have set EFT to show all Vs, instead of my skills, because I am slightly better with armor than shields.

Shield Harbinger:
Signature: 1816 m
Speed: 1346 m/s
Align time: 8.9s
EHP: 31237
DPS: 389 w/ FMPL II and Scorch, drones not included.

Brick Harbinger:
Signature: 1590 m
Speed: 836 m/s
Align time: 15.8s
EHP: 69782
DPS: 369 w/ FMPL II and Scroch, no drones.

So you're trading about 40% of your speed and 20 DPS in exchange for more than doubling your EHPs, and taking less damage from missiles. And if we go ahead and add slaves, the Brick tank gets 100k EHP. How about more than tripple the hitpoints for a loss of under half the speed?

I'll let you go ahead and do that one.

I already answered that. If you want the benefits of shield tanking, you have to have the down sides as well. That means no mids for tackle, that means less buffer because of over sized plates, that means you take more damage due to increased sig radius, that means your resists can be neuted out, that means your active tank takes extra cap to run.

You're focusing on one penalty and saying FIX EET! without considering all the other stuff that comes with shield tanking. If you want the good, you have to take the bad.

And I used harby because I'm lazy. I didn't have a shield fit cane in EFT and to be quite frank I couldn't be arsed fitting one to argue against this dead horse. It's not going to happen anyways.

Your turn.