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insurance
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Keeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-07-07 08:28:54 UTC
Stop being wimp, I say take insurance away all together
admaril bluebeard
Avery Film and Sound Studios
#22 - 2012-07-07 09:54:46 UTC
Keeryn wrote:
Stop being wimp, I say take insurance away all together



well we now know your young and dont understand insurance
Mag's
Azn Empire
#23 - 2012-07-07 12:37:33 UTC
admaril bluebeard wrote:
Keeryn wrote:
Stop being wimp, I say take insurance away all together



well we now know your young and dont understand insurance
Well you've compared in-game insurance with RL insurance. It's quite obvious you don't understand either.

Also mxzf is far from being a 'newbie' He has a great grasp on game mechanics and their consequences. The fact you didn't argue the point and merely called him a 'newbie', speaks volumes.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#24 - 2012-07-07 12:55:38 UTC
admaril bluebeard wrote:
Keeryn wrote:
Stop being wimp, I say take insurance away all together



well we now know your young and dont understand insurance

I am fairly certain you are all being trolled.

Mag's wrote:
Also mxzf is far from being a 'newbie' He has a great grasp on game mechanics and their consequences. The fact you didn't argue the point and merely called him a 'newbie', speaks volumes.

This.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#25 - 2012-07-07 14:48:48 UTC
admaril bluebeard wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Really, as it stands (and the way CCP described it) Insurance should really be called Mineral Salvage Refund or some such.

Because thats all it is. A refund on the cost of minerals used.


Also, if it were done like a real insurance company not many people would be covered (more than two payouts and prices would get way too high).

Edit: also OP, CCP decided than insurance only covers cost of minerals, not the player mark up.


now before making this coment i would have done some pricing the mineral cost is almost as much as hulks cost how do i know i make them

If you charge the mineral cost for your hulks, you are a moron. Unless you think tech is a mineral (it isn't from an in game insurance stand point). The minerals of a Hulk are about 1/8-1/4 the cost, depending on markup.

Most T2 ships are like this.



Also, you have yet to respond to my previous post. How do you explain depreciation? Insurance companies don't just give out replacement stuff.
admaril bluebeard
Avery Film and Sound Studios
#26 - 2012-07-09 12:12:12 UTC
If you charge the mineral cost for your hulks, you are a moron. Unless you think tech is a mineral (it isn't from an in game insurance stand point). The minerals of a Hulk are about 1/8-1/4 the cost, depending on markup.

Most T2 ships are like this.



Also, you have yet to respond to my previous post. How do you explain depreciation? Insurance companies don't just give out replacement stuff.[/quote]


Sorry but I don’t always get on to answer everybody every day. But you can clearly see I do try to answer when I’m on, but in relation to your answer. Are you aware that all components boil down to basic mineral? Some from moon and some planetary but all come from minerals and to make the tech 2 components you need minerals.

I have done very intensive studies into the cost of hulks. As to whether it was better to buy them readymade, or to mine and buy the minerals to make all parts, of the hulk and the mineral costs are equal to the cost of the hulk complete. especially at this market values it cheaper to buy them as mineral cost to buy to make these components are dearer, then the cost to buy a hulk complete , so please note I am very well aware of the mineral costs of the hulks. As I have done excel spreadsheets on this matter, and yes the mineral value at this present time is greater than it costs to buy the hulk made.

Please note this does not include the research costs to make the blue print, they are just the mineral cost as all parts of the hulk, are made from raw minerals. As I have specialized in manufacture with one of my toons I have taken all steps to only make ships, that are profitable and I only make hulks, when they can make me a profit. So please before you quote the mineral cost do some intensive research. as a real businessman in the real world of manufacture its standard practice to know your costs, as if you make something that you don’t make profit then you’re a nut and trust me, my software can work out a ships cost in a few minutes.

I just tell it the components needed and then it derives the cost of the components made from raw minerals, and the raw costs as well so the only thing they are paying for is the raw mineral going into the final stage of manufacture not the complete mineral cost, and I know that my software is right, as I spent weeks programming excel to work out ship costs, and I even use the eve geek latest costs before working out ship costs. do a real costing and to do that you have to cost each component, from its raw mineral stage then times that by the quantity of them needed, and so on for each component and then you will realize i am dead right.

i did not complain without knowing the real cost and all they are paying for is a laser not the ship and that’s what insurance is ,HERE ARE DEFINITIONS OF INSURANCE FOR YOU AS YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND INSURANCE

THE NEXT QUOTE IS THE DEFINITION OF INSURANCE
admaril bluebeard
Avery Film and Sound Studios
#27 - 2012-07-09 12:12:29 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
admaril bluebeard wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Really, as it stands (and the way CCP described it) Insurance should really be called Mineral Salvage Refund or some such.

Because thats all it is. A refund on the cost of minerals used.


Also, if it were done like a real insurance company not many people would be covered (more than two payouts and prices would get way too high).

Edit: also OP, CCP decided than insurance only covers cost of minerals, not the player mark up.


now before making this coment i would have done some pricing the mineral cost is almost as much as hulks cost how do i know i make them

If you charge the mineral cost for your hulks, you are a moron. Unless you think tech is a mineral (it isn't from an in game insurance stand point). The minerals of a Hulk are about 1/8-1/4 the cost, depending on markup.

Most T2 ships are like this.



Also, you have yet to respond to my previous post. How do you explain depreciation? Insurance companies don't just give out replacement stuff.



INSURANCE - Word Definitions / Meanings, Synonyms and Antonyms, Reference Words Encyclopedia

Insurance \In*sur"ance\, n. [From {Insure}.]
[1913 Webster]

1.The act of insuring, or assuring, against loss or damage by a contingent event; a contract whereby, for a stipulated consideration, called premium, one party undertakes to indemnify or guarantee another against loss by certain specified risks. Cf.
{Assurance}, n.,
6.[1913 Webster]
Note: The person who undertakes to pay in case of loss is termed the insurer; the danger against which he undertakes, the risk; the person protected, the insured; the sum which he pays for the protection, the premium; and the contract itself, when reduced to form, the policy. --Johnson's Cyc.
[1913 Webster]

2.The premium paid for insuring property or life.
[1913 Webster]

3.The sum for which life or property is insured.
[1913 Webster]

4.A guaranty, security, or pledge; assurance. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]
The most acceptable insurance of the divine protection. --Mickle.
[1913 Webster]

5.Hence: Any means of assuring against loss; a precaution; as, we always use our seat belts as insurance against injury. [PJC]
{Accident insurance}, insurance against pecuniary loss by reason of accident to the person.
{Endowment insurance} or {Endowment assurance}, a combination of life insurance and investment such that if the person upon whose life a risk is taken dies before a certain specified time the insurance becomes due at once, and if he survives, it becomes due at the time specified. Also called {whole life insurance}.
{Fire insurance}. See under {Fire}.
{Insurance broker}, a broker or agent who effects insurance.
{Insurance company}, a company or corporation whose business it is to insure against loss, damage, or death.
{Insurance policy}, a certificate of insurance; the document containing the contract made by an insurance company with a person whose property or life is insured.
{Life insurance}. See under {Life}.
[1913 Webster].Insurance \In*sur"ance\, n. [From {Insure}.]
[1913 Webster]

1.The act of insuring, or assuring, against loss or damage by a contingent event; a contract whereby, for a stipulated consideration, called premium, one party undertakes to indemnify or guarantee another against loss by certain specified risks. Cf.
{Assurance}, n.,
6.[1913 Webster]
Note: The person who undertakes to pay in case of loss is termed the insurer; the danger against which he undertakes, the risk; the person protected, the insured; the sum which he pays for the protection, the premium; and the contract itself, when reduced to form, the policy. --Johnson's Cyc.
[1913 Webster]

2.The premium paid for insuring property or life.
[1913 Webster]

3.The sum for which life or property is insured.
[1913 Webster]

4.A guaranty, security, or pledge; assurance. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]
The most acceptable insurance of the divine protection. --Mickle.
[1913 Webster]

5.Hence: Any means of assuring against loss; a precaution; as, we always use our seat belts as insurance against injury. [PJC]
{Accident insurance}, insurance against pecuniary loss by reason of accident to the person.
{Endowment insurance} or {Endowment assurance}, a combination of life insurance and investment such that if the person upon whose life a risk is taken dies before a certain specified time the insurance becomes due at once, and if he survives, it becomes due at the time specified. Also called {whole life insurance}.
{Fire insurance}. See under {Fire}.
{Insurance broker}, a broker or agent who effects insurance.
{Insurance company}, a company or corporation whose business it is to insure against loss, damage, or death.
{Insurance policy}, a certificate of insurance; the document containing the contract made by an insurance company with a person whose property or life is insured.
{Life insurance}. See under {Life}.
[1913 Webster].
insurance n 1: promise of reimbursement in the case of loss; paid to people or companies so concerned about hazards that they have made prepayments to an insurance company 2: written contract or certificate of insurance; "you should have read the small print on your policy" [syn: {policy}, {insurance policy}]
3: protection against future loss [syn: {indemnity}].
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-07-09 12:16:46 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I agree that something should be done to fix the insurance problem.

Removing it altogether for everyone except newbies sound good?

Not emptyquoting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#29 - 2012-07-09 12:42:21 UTC
This thread is now about removing insurance entirely?

k.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Mag's
Azn Empire
#30 - 2012-07-09 21:40:06 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
This thread is now about removing insurance entirely?

k.
Yea why not.

The OP still thinks he can compare RL insurance, with a game mechanic. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#31 - 2012-07-09 23:02:22 UTC
Thank you for the reply OP. Not quoting simply to avoid the stacks.

I apologize, when I said minerals (the ones that "insurance" is based off of) I only meant the kind that can be mined from ores/reprocessed from modules. That is what the insurance is based off of. Not the tech, or anything else. Just the ore minerals.


Also your defining of insurance is quite useless as not only do definitions change, but RL insurance isn't exactly like the provided definitions.


And a RL insurance company in EVE would have the following unpleasant features:
Would be required to fly the ship.
Would increase drastically in cost every time a claim is filed (automatically on ship loss).
Would eventually drop you for losing too many ships.
Would sue you for shooting at someone else's ships.
Would lead to no one undocking because they all get dropped by their insurance.
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