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Navy Scorpion VS. CNR for PvE
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Zmaychek2 Dragons1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-09 03:59:39 UTC
i'm allready flying CNR but i like Scorpion sexy look :) My question is whats the diference in 'real' life?
Fedimart
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-10-09 04:05:06 UTC
The simple answer is you get less DPS and more tank with the navy scorpion. I prefer the CNR myself but the scorpion can be a good choice for lower skilled pilots.
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#3 - 2011-10-09 04:12:44 UTC
I have both and typically fly my SNI when I'm not paying that much attention. Most of the time if I get distracted I have anywhere from minutes to hours to remember I'm playing the game. That said, the CNR will clear out a mission faster.
Goose99
#4 - 2011-10-09 04:17:47 UTC
CNR if you want gank. SNI if you want tank/cap stability.

SNI with 4 bcs does the same dps as CNR with 3, but has better cap stability and far better tank. But then, CNR with cap booster gank fit will achieve dps that's not possible with SNI.
Leon Audacity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-09 07:00:01 UTC
Like what Fed said, SNI is alot easier on lower SP players than a CNR would be due to the damage it can take. The SNI does look alot better tho looks wise.
Vizvayu Koga
#6 - 2011-10-09 07:13:12 UTC
From my experience: I'm a low SP pilot and the SNI works much better to me. The difference between DPS (RNI=little more DPS) wasn't nearly as big as the difference in tank (SNI=WAY more tank). So I choose what I consider a better ship overall, the SNI.
Again, this is with my low skills.
stoicfaux
#7 - 2011-10-09 14:59:19 UTC
Comparisons
Raw DPS
* Missile DPS - CNR wins.
719 missile dps versus the SNI's 616. That's a 16.7% improvement.

* Missile DPS + Drones - CNR wins.
CNR+3xGardeII = 899 dps versus the SNI + 2xGardeII = 736 DPS. 22.1% improvement.

* Long targeting range - Even.
SNI has a natural112 km targeting range, CNR needs to use a Signal Amplier to reach 121 km, but the CNR has the extra low slot for the Signal Amp.

Tank
* Tank - SNI wins.
With a CN XL booster + 3 hardeners + Heavy Cap Booster against 50% EM/50% Therm damage, the CNR gets 562 tank for 1m21s with 122 tank overall versus the SNI's 743 peak tank for 3m51s and 566 tank overall.

Applied DPS:
* 3x Rigor Rigs- Even. Both ships can mount equivalent rigs.

* TPs - SNI wins. The SNI can mount 3 TPs versus the CNR's 1 TP.

Fitting
CPU - SNI wins
SNI use 850 out of 984 whereas the CNR has 894 out of 918. The SNI has 134 CPU free versus 24 CPU.

Powergrid - Even.
Both have plenty of grid left over.

Personal Conjecture
If you are flying against big slow targets, such as Guristas, the CNR will probably do better since it's trivial to tank Guristas and one TP + Rigor rigs should max out damage on most targets. Against smaller, faster moving ships such as Angels, the SNI's three TPs will probably, maybe, produce more applied DPS than the CNR.

Conclusion
If you're flying a SNI over the CNR, then get a Tengu. If you're passive tanking the SNI, then use of them cap-stable, five launcher Tengus with a medium Pith-C booster would. Big smile

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Fedimart
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-10-09 16:09:39 UTC
Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck.
Vizvayu Koga
#9 - 2011-10-09 16:50:10 UTC
Fedimart wrote:
Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck.


First of all you failed reading the OP original question. Second I'd like to see your Drake fit which reaches BS levels both in tank and DPS. Oh and BTW how much (in numbers) is "plenty of" and "more than enough" and for what exactly?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#10 - 2011-10-09 16:51:10 UTC
"real" life: Smexy scorpion leaves you to find a hotter pilot, Raven leaves ya to find a higher SP pilot. Its still a brutal universe.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Zmaychek2 Dragons1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-09 17:56:24 UTC
[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier I

Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior I x3
Warrior II x5



This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them)
Goose99
#12 - 2011-10-09 18:14:33 UTC
Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier I

Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior I x3
Warrior II x5



This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them)


Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying.
Vizvayu Koga
#13 - 2011-10-09 19:05:15 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier I

Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior I x3
Warrior II x5



This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them)


Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying.


Actually he is using 4 BCS (one is faction) but I agree that rigors may be a nice addition.
stoicfaux
#14 - 2011-10-09 19:20:05 UTC
*bleep*

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Fedimart
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-09 20:27:39 UTC
Vizvayu Koga wrote:
Fedimart wrote:
Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck.


First of all you failed reading the OP original question. Second I'd like to see your Drake fit which reaches BS levels both in tank and DPS. Oh and BTW how much (in numbers) is "plenty of" and "more than enough" and for what exactly?


I read and answered the OP in my first reply so how about you read the whole thread before trying to flame? The second reply was just a suggestion and might not even apply to the OP since I don't know his skills.


As far as the Drake's tank it does have a battleship tank. This is comparing standard T2 level 4 mission fits. The EFT DPS is lower but this does not take the signature radius penalty of cruise missiles into account. EFT is a good benchmark but actually using the ship is the only way to truly see how it works.
Goose99
#16 - 2011-10-09 20:44:13 UTC
Vizvayu Koga wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier I

Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior I x3
Warrior II x5



This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them)


Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying.


Actually he is using 4 BCS (one is faction) but I agree that rigors may be a nice addition.


I fail at reading. But yeah, why rf?
Zmaychek2 Dragons1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-09 20:54:58 UTC
same bonus and lower demands, i have it from my old drake before i trained for T2 module
stoicfaux
#18 - 2011-10-09 20:55:57 UTC
A 3 TP SNI with Rigor II + 2xFlare IIs performs almost as well as a CNR with 1 TP and RigorII, RigorI, + Flare II against a smattering of Angel ships. Skills V and 5% damage and 5% rof implants. The only real differences are:

a) the SNI normally takes an extra volley to kill Angel battleships, and

b) the SNI can almost get away with using Fury on cruisers. A CNR would require 6 volleys to kill a Arch Gistum Marauder with Fury, but only 4 volleys with T1 ammo. A SNI requires 5 Fury and 4 T1 volleys.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
TuxedoMask
Void Covenant
The Initiative.
#19 - 2011-10-09 23:15:37 UTC
I use a SNI and I love it. She has 8 mids which is ideal for tanking and with my skills i can get her to 747dps.

my friend has the CNR because of the extra launcher, but I'd tank more tank vs. 1 launcher any day
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-10-10 01:48:24 UTC
I'd say the other major point to look at is what YOU like to fly. I spend 18 months in a Standard Raven and all i could think was "I can't wait to get out of this hunk and into something better looking."

I then went on to Rattler before CCP nerfed it to a drone boat. Now I stick w/ the SNI because it looks shiney, does enough dps to finish a lvl 4 mission, has enough tank that I can not be terrified that I'm going to lose my 1Bil isk worth of fittings if I forget a trigger, and because I have spare room to fit an 100MN AB II, which I just prefer.

So, in a nutshell, fly which one seems "better" to you, regardless of what EFT or Forum Warriors say!

Ced

Cedric
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