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Cap Battery changes
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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-07-05 11:40:58 UTC
Recently the cap batteries were changed in an attempt to counter neuts/nos by reflecting the effect back at the enemy. However, with only a 12% neut reflecting effect, it is not effective in the slightest.

I think the reflected neutralizing amount need to be increased to at least 25%.

I've only tested it once so if you have tested it more and disagree with me, please tell me why you would ever use this mod in favor of cap boosters.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#2 - 2012-07-05 12:22:21 UTC
Why would anyone fit the cap battery? CCC I'd rather fit the cap booster...
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3 - 2012-07-05 14:09:42 UTC
Your error is in thinking that CCP wanted to do something for the cap battery when in actual fact they just wanted to appear to be doing something (as a way of showing a proactive balancing stance without actually having to try and tackle the throrny issues or have to go for "dangerous" solutions).
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-05 16:39:29 UTC
Either cap batteries provide too little extra capacitor or cap rechargers recharge too much cap

If they were balanced you'd be seing as much cap batteries as rechargers, and we all know this isn't the case.

Its going to take more than a minor 'anti-neut' ability to increase the popularity of the cap batteries

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-05 17:09:28 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Recently the cap batteries were changed in an attempt to counter neuts/nos by reflecting the effect back at the enemy. However, with only a 12% neut reflecting effect, it is not effective in the slightest.

I think the reflected neutralizing amount need to be increased to at least 25%.

I've only tested it once so if you have tested it more and disagree with me, please tell me why you would ever use this mod in favor of cap boosters.


Even if it were 50%, batteries will hardly see any more usage than ECCMs. The problem is that with so little cap added, they just suck as batteries, since boosters are around. The benefits they provide when you're not getting neuted isn't worth the waste of a slot.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-06 10:47:53 UTC
I'd probably use one if it had a cap recharge bonus as well, obviously not as strong as the pure recharger, even something like 7.5% on top of the extra cap amount, and with maybe a 25% reflect rate.

Then I'd consider groping around for the extra PG needed.

I lied :o
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#7 - 2012-07-06 17:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Drew Solaert wrote:
I'd probably use one if it had a cap recharge bonus as well, obviously not as strong as the pure recharger, even something like 7.5% on top of the extra cap amount, and with maybe a 25% reflect rate.

Then I'd consider groping around for the extra PG needed.


cap batteries give cap recharge bonus, for cruisers large battery gives better bonus than cap recharger
Karch
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-06 19:54:52 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:


cap batteries give cap recharge bonus, for cruisers large battery gives better bonus than cap recharger


This statement isn't entirely true.... In fact it is false.

What happens is when you add a cap battery it increases total cap without affecting the recharge time. As a result, you are getting more cap per second recharged. This helps with cap stability in many instances where cap gained per second is greater than cap spent per second.

As you stated this is most notable on cruisers due to the large cap battery a significantly increasing the total seize of the cpacitor. However, due to PG and CPU constraints cap rechargers and cap power relays are much better allowing to have a more effective overall fit for your ship, especially on cruisers....
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2012-07-06 20:05:41 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Either cap batteries provide too little extra capacitor or cap rechargers recharge too much cap

If they were balanced you'd be seing as much cap batteries as rechargers, and we all know this isn't the case.

Its going to take more than a minor 'anti-neut' ability to increase the popularity of the cap batteries


I don't think that's the core reason. I think that the main reason Cap Rechargers get used so much more than batteries is the fitting reqs. It's SO much more difficult to fit a battery than a recharger that people go with the rechargers all the time.
Feyrin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-07-07 13:16:43 UTC
I also think that there is a need for an extra large capacitor battery, currently Large batteries make some sense on certain ships, for example some HAC's and possibly some strategic cruisers, but you would never fit one on a battleship because the bonus in relation to total cap size is too small. In my opinion the fittings should all be moved down a class so large batteries get the fittings of medium batteries ect, and a new x-large cap battery is added.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#11 - 2012-07-07 19:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Karch wrote:
nahjustwarpin wrote:


cap batteries give cap recharge bonus, for cruisers large battery gives better bonus than cap recharger


This statement isn't entirely true.... In fact it is false.

What happens is when you add a cap battery it increases total cap without affecting the recharge time. As a result, you are getting more cap per second recharged. This helps with cap stability in many instances where cap gained per second is greater than cap spent per second.

As you stated this is most notable on cruisers due to the large cap battery a significantly increasing the total seize of the cpacitor. However, due to PG and CPU constraints cap rechargers and cap power relays are much better allowing to have a more effective overall fit for your ship, especially on cruisers....


1. i'm sorry, but increasing cap while maintaining cap recharge time increases cap recharge.

2. if you want a dual mar ishtar with afterburner, you start with lcbII. it's one of few ships that cap battery works well and with some fits is the only way to give you cap stability with great tank (swap capacitor rigs for armor) .
Taurich Vorsel
#12 - 2012-07-07 21:07:20 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Karch wrote:
nahjustwarpin wrote:


cap batteries give cap recharge bonus, for cruisers large battery gives better bonus than cap recharger


This statement isn't entirely true.... In fact it is false.

What happens is when you add a cap battery it increases total cap without affecting the recharge time. As a result, you are getting more cap per second recharged. This helps with cap stability in many instances where cap gained per second is greater than cap spent per second.

As you stated this is most notable on cruisers due to the large cap battery a significantly increasing the total seize of the cpacitor. However, due to PG and CPU constraints cap rechargers and cap power relays are much better allowing to have a more effective overall fit for your ship, especially on cruisers....


1. i'm sorry, but increasing cap while maintaining cap recharge time increases cap recharge.

I know what you are trying to say, but you are using a term that is almost universally used for the Capacitor Recharge Time stat and it's confusing as ****.

If you mean more capacitor per second, say more capacitor per second. Cap batteries do not improve your cap recharge, they improve your total capacitor and your capacitor per second

Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE!
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#13 - 2012-07-08 16:49:55 UTC
Batteries either need their fitting cost halved, or their benefit doubled. There are a few fits I would squeeze them into if so. But even then, only a few fits. Better then the 0 fits I use them on now though.

Overhaul Dscan!
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#14 - 2012-07-08 23:33:37 UTC
I have one fit that uses batteries.

Did you know a myrm can permarun 3 MAR IIs if you use enough batteries that you get highs with 200mm ACs in em?
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#15 - 2012-07-09 01:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ColdCutz
Silas Shaw wrote:
I have one fit that uses batteries.

Did you know a myrm can permarun 3 MAR IIs if you use enough batteries that you get highs with 200mm ACs in em?


Hmmm, you can only fit one Large Battery II after all that other stuff. Aside from an AB, filling the rest of the mids with Cap Charger II's gives more recharge than anymore batteries. In fact on the Myrm one Large battery increases the recharge rate exactly as much as a Cap Charger II.

Even then you're probably talking about a PVE fit. The problem is tweaking batteries to be much more useful against cap warfare in PVP combat. Like others, I'm also worried that CCP will right off this miniscule nos/neut bonus to batteries as a complete fix to the problem for years to come.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-07-09 03:57:37 UTC
Cap batteries have too high fitting costs when compared to benefits.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-07-09 11:13:27 UTC
Would we rather the fittings cost be reduced or have them stay the same but increase the bonuses?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#18 - 2012-07-09 15:36:17 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Would we rather the fittings cost be reduced or have them stay the same but increase the bonuses?


Personally, I'd rather the fitting cost be reduced. There are many times when the extra cap (and resulting regen) would be handy, but most of the time there just isn't room to fit the things.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#19 - 2012-07-09 16:22:07 UTC
Karch wrote:
nahjustwarpin wrote:


cap batteries give cap recharge bonus, for cruisers large battery gives better bonus than cap recharger


This statement isn't entirely true.... In fact it is false.

What happens is when you add a cap battery it increases total cap without affecting the recharge time. As a result, you are getting more cap per second recharged. This helps with cap stability in many instances where cap gained per second is greater than cap spent per second.

As you stated this is most notable on cruisers due to the large cap battery a significantly increasing the total seize of the cpacitor. However, due to PG and CPU constraints cap rechargers and cap power relays are much better allowing to have a more effective overall fit for your ship, especially on cruisers....


increasing total cap with a static % cap recharge does increase cap recharge, stop being daft.