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NaglFar
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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-03 23:04:34 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:

Long tiem ago it used to have 7.5% rof on proj and 5% damage on missiles then got changed to 7.5% rof and 7.5% damage BOTH on projectiles.. then for some unknown reason they decided to nerf it massively to 5% on both.


Because it gave the Nag DPS out of line with other dreads. The present Moros is exempt from this because ghaghkjklda;

Quote:
I would prefer if they REMOVE the missile and increase the damage bonus so that the final damage is comparable to other dreads. Moros has same bonus but applied to 3 guns instead of 2 and this is NOT fair.


Nag does DPS on-par with other non-Moros dreads already.

3 heat sink Rev does about 9K DPS
3 gyro Nagl does about 9K DPS
3 BCU Phoenix does 7.5K DPS

Hathrul wrote:
as it is, its the most useless ship in the game


As long as the Scythe Fleet Issue exists, the Phoenix will not have to worry about being the most useless ship in the game. It still bashes POS/sov just fine.
Lord Drokoth
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#22 - 2012-07-04 07:16:58 UTC
The only problem the Phoenix has is the range of both of its available weapon systems.
Other than that it's a pretty good ship. I do agree the nag could do with a small boost, but I don't agree with removing its torpedoes. It's one of the bags "quirks" in a way. And it's fun to watch all the pretty new explosions. I'd say just make changes to capital missile range to extend them out a bit and add a small bonus to missile damage.
Problem solved.
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2012-07-05 02:06:34 UTC
nag is fine tbh. . .

and not wanting to train something is never a convincing argument.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-07-05 03:51:43 UTC
It seems the issue is not in the ship itself ..... once again the issue is caused by ****** capital missiles. Just like golem is meh compared to turret marauders thanks to torps being meh.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#25 - 2012-07-05 06:36:14 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:

Long tiem ago it used to have 7.5% rof on proj and 5% damage on missiles then got changed to 7.5% rof and 7.5% damage BOTH on projectiles.. then for some unknown reason they decided to nerf it massively to 5% on both.


Because it gave the Nag DPS out of line with other dreads. The present Moros is exempt from this because ghaghkjklda;

Quote:
I would prefer if they REMOVE the missile and increase the damage bonus so that the final damage is comparable to other dreads. Moros has same bonus but applied to 3 guns instead of 2 and this is NOT fair.


Nag does DPS on-par with other non-Moros dreads already.

3 heat sink Rev does about 9K DPS
3 gyro Nagl does about 9K DPS
3 BCU Phoenix does 7.5K DPS

Hathrul wrote:
as it is, its the most useless ship in the game


As long as the Scythe Fleet Issue exists, the Phoenix will not have to worry about being the most useless ship in the game. It still bashes POS/sov just fine.


yourdoingitwrong
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#26 - 2012-07-05 06:39:30 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
It seems the issue is not in the ship itself ..... once again the issue is caused by ****** capital missiles. Just like golem is meh compared to turret marauders thanks to torps being meh.


Bored of this argument. Crusie missiles are the same as artillery. Stop comparing cruise missile DPS to artillery when it's range is sickeningly better and ignores tracking.

And btw, torp damage is in a good place right now given its perfect hit quality against the size of ship class its designed to be used against: Battleships.

Complaining about torps against a small target is like a megathron complaining it cant hit frigates orbiting at 500m.
Rip Marley
MANPENIS
#27 - 2012-07-05 09:10:10 UTC
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
nag is fine tbh. . .

and not wanting to train something is never a convincing argument.




Not wanting to need extra training to receive less payoff IS a valid argument to me.




What exactly do you get out of needing to train another weapon system and having a split weapon ship? where is the payoff? I'll wait for your answer.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-07-05 10:03:51 UTC
Rip Marley wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
nag is fine tbh. . .

and not wanting to train something is never a convincing argument.




Not wanting to need extra training to receive less payoff IS a valid argument to me.




What exactly do you get out of needing to train another weapon system and having a split weapon ship? where is the payoff? I'll wait for your answer.


You can use more stuff? do more things?

No Worries
Tankn00blicus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-05 20:41:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tankn00blicus
According to CCP logic, the Nag is perfectly balanced because it's the fastest dread. Speed not counting for anything while in siege mode is, of course, a total non-issue.

Something people aren't pointing out in this thread is that you've got an extra weapon (vs. other dreads) using ammo, and XL ammo is uber expensive.
Skip McChipster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-07-27 15:27:56 UTC
When Dreads are fit correctly (as mentioned earlier with damage mods) it is by far the weakest DPS boat of the bunch. Splitting up bonuses is a terrible way to go about things... versatility is a joke in this game and it only makes a ship weaker in reality; you pick a ship that is meant for a specific purpose and use it to its fullest extent. You want multiple capabilites bring a buddy.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#31 - 2012-07-27 16:37:43 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
destiny2 wrote:
I was on the test server with me chimera and i had 4 naglfars, shooting at my carrier that was not in triage. and 4 of them couldnt break my shield tank. but when i asked 4 rev,4 pheonix, and 4 moros pilots to try in groups of 4 they managed to.


I don't believe you.

edit: Unless you say the Nags weren't in siege.


I thought the damage reduction from a carrier moving against cit torps was pretty high?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#32 - 2012-07-27 16:58:20 UTC
Skip McChipster wrote:
versatility is a joke in this game and it only makes a ship weaker in reality; you pick a ship that is meant for a specific purpose and use it to its fullest extent. You want multiple capabilites bring a buddy.

Yeah, it's like BC : they are weaker than BS, and slower than cruisers ; they are definitely useless...

Or take the drone boats, they are far too versatile to have any use.

Or the Typhoon, this example of minmatar design, is obviously useless.

Oh wait !
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-07-27 17:03:01 UTC
Hathrul wrote:
destiny2 wrote:
I was on the test server with me chimera and i had 4 naglfars, shooting at my carrier that was not in triage. and 4 of them couldnt break my shield tank. but when i asked 4 rev,4 pheonix, and 4 moros pilots to try in groups of 4 they managed to.


considering the nag outdamages a phoenix by far id say there were either **** pilots without skills, or youre just full of bs.

id rather see the capital torps changed, a lot. then the phoenix might be a viable ship as well. as it is, its the most useless ship in the game


I see your Phoenix and raise you a Sin.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#34 - 2012-07-27 21:51:17 UTC
Minmatar are pretty much the best in terms of sub-capital ships.

Mobility and lightweight does not apply to Capital ships.

Its is only fair that minmatar should have a weakness in a certain area when compared to other races.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#35 - 2012-07-27 22:02:56 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Crusie missiles are the same as artillery. Stop comparing cruise missile DPS to artillery when it's range is sickeningly better and ignores tracking.

And btw, torp damage is in a good place right now given its perfect hit quality against the size of ship class its designed to be used against: Battleships.

Complaining about torps against a small target is like a megathron complaining it cant hit frigates orbiting at 500m.


LOL. Cruises are as good as Arties? Torps get perfect hit quality against BSs?

Do you even play EVE?
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#36 - 2012-07-27 22:22:19 UTC
Splitweapon naglfar is awesome, if you want to change anything give it an additional bonus to capital missiles.
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