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Estimated L4 ISK/Hour?
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Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-06-30 16:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Watooshi Makoochji
Buddy and I are fiddling around trying to come up with some estimated ISK/Hr earning rates for Level 4 Hisec missions. We got one guy in a dps boat able to solo most if not all L4s; one guy with minimal salvaging skills in a noctis.

We finished the "Cargo Delivery" mission in 44 minutes total (maybe a bit less) and this was our take:

Bounties: 1,603,125 (apiece) = 3,206,250 total
Loot: 2,790,293.76 (total at rock bottom buy order prices)
Total: 5,996,543.76 total
Est. ISK / HR (Total * 1.4): 8,395,161.264
[44 minutes is 0.733 hours. 1 / 0.733 = ~1.4
-=-=-=-=-=-

We sold the loot immediately for the cheapo Buy order prices. Assuming we were to cache it, move it to a hub and place sell orders with a proper Trader toon (lower fees and tax) I'd guess the loot totals would go up by at least 2.5.

Projections for Slower Loot Sale
Loot *2.5 = 6,975,734.4
Projected Total: 10,181,984.4
ISK / HR (Total *1.4): 14,254,778.16

So, we are coming up with estimated Level 4 ISK/Hr earning rates of at least 8.4m/hour (4.2 apiece for both pilots in the duo) and potentially as high as 14.3m/hour (~7m apiece).

What do you L4 mission running experts think of those estimates? Extreme low ball, reasonable mid-range ballpark, or too high?
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-06-30 16:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
You can't base an isk/hr ratio off one mission. I'd suggest documenting all the missions you run, for say a month or two, and then see what your number looks like.
DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
#3 - 2012-06-30 17:06:16 UTC
I generally do anything between 20 mil and 100 mil / hour depending on the missions. I don't salvage or loot, just kill and I also blitz the mission if it's possible. Hence for me the Cargo Delivery usually takes ~5 minutes from undock to turn in.

Never have bothered to calculate the income from LP to isk/hr since it fluctuates so wildly.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2012-06-30 18:22:18 UTC
Klymer wrote:
You can't base an isk/hr ratio off one mission. I'd suggest documenting all the missions you run, for say a month or two, and then see what your number looks like.


This is true.

But your rate is still low. One thing that will bump it up is to factor in LP at a reasonable return (ideally, this would be an actual return based on what you actually buy and sell, but if you need a lowball to start then work out the return on implants for now).

That's not all that's a bit off though. Cargo Delivery, even without the obvious blitz, shouldn't take that long. I'd highly consider dropping the Noctis for just about any ship that can help with damage and run it side by side with the main combat character. If you must loot/salvage, bookmark each room and come back in the Noctis about once an hour to sweep everything in one go.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2012-06-30 18:43:13 UTC
I did not see the actual mission payout + bonus in your calcs. +2.5 mil or so

Add LP value, being conservative +5 mil or so



If you like to loot, save it all until a story line comes up. (about 15 missions) Then take a large load to Jita and dump it there.
Many people do not loot. It's a time/value thing. Another mission + LP is just worth more than loot.

The ISK you have described, should be about what 1 pilot can make solo. *If* your skilled and confident of the missions, do them solo.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#6 - 2012-06-30 20:18:38 UTC
Ahh this thread again...



Posted: 2011.09.30 13:54

"Cipher Jones"


This is for a .5 system, l4 in negotiation and Security missions, and a mach with aprox 800 gun DPS and a flight of light drones for frigs (when and if needed). Salvaged by a noctis alt where applicable. Times start with accepting the mission and end after the salvage/loot is sold, or when 'rushing' is over. This is for Republic fleet. The calculation script was written in Perl. It allows for the time to be entered manually so after the first time you run the mission you can adjust the LP conversion. Sorry, I lost the recon series results, didn't log them.

598.178405 seconds = 0.166160668055556 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1730000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1450000
Enter the Bounty earned... 2077500
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 8314
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any...
13,571,500 Total Isk... 81,676,970.6021066 ISK per hour was earned running WC4
in a Machariel
14/09/2011 22:06:11

0.075 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 578000
Enter the bonus, if any... 553000
Enter the Bounty earned...
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 2626
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any...
50,093,333.3333333 ISK per hour was earned running Cargo Delivery
in a Comet
30/08/2011 22:31:00

0.366944444444444 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1150000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1140000
Enter the Bounty earned... 4956000
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 6478
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 9400000
23,124,000 Total Isk... 63,017,713.8531416 ISK per hour was earned running Damsel
in a Mach
18/09/2011 15:58:11

2889.157538 seconds = 0.802543760555556 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1810000
Enter the bonus, if any... 2100000
Enter the Bounty earned... 18333868
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 8314
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 17000000
47,557,868 Total Isk... 59,258,909.4046141 ISK per hour was earned running AE4
in a Mach
19/09/2011 13:20:36

Enter time in seconds... 2695
0.748611111111111 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1750000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1830000
Enter the Bounty earned... 9982000
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 5939
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 22000000
41,501,000 Total Isk... 55,437,328.3858998 ISK per hour was earned running Mordus Headhunters
in a Mach
19/09/2011 16:15:24


0.333333333333333 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1530000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1590000
Enter the Bounty earned... 0
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 5176
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 5400000
13,696,000 Total Isk... 41,088,000 ISK per hour was earned running infiltrated outposts
in a mach
19/09/2011 17:39:50


1005.55936 seconds = 0.279322044444444 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1220000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1140000
Enter the Bounty earned... 4525571
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 5539
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1000
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 6400000
18,824,571 Total Isk... 67,393,789.2637189 ISK per hour was earned running Unauthorized military presence
in a Mach
19/09/2011 18:45:10

1095.834392 seconds = 0.304398442222222 hours...
Enter the mission reward... 1690000
Enter the bonus, if any... 1320000
Enter the Bounty earned... 9139875
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 6737
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 930
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 7100000
25,515,285 Total Isk... 83,821,995.9791151 ISK per hour was earned running PI
in a Mach
20/09/2011 00:58:59

1227.728612 seconds
Enter the mission reward... 700000
Enter the bonus, if any... 841000
Enter the Bounty earned... 3143442
Enter Loyalty Points earned... 4044
How many isk per loyalty point do you convert?... 1100
Enter the value of the loot/salvage, if any... 3000000
12,132,842 Total Isk... 35,576,454.5788723 ISK per hour was earned running Intercept The Sabateurs
in a Mach

Not today spaghetti.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2012-06-30 20:27:28 UTC
~10m/hour is very lowball I think. its around the range where you might as well be mining. it looks to me that your kill speed could really use improving. since there are two of you try picking up 2 missions, both go do them together in dps ships, then go back and salvage each mission alone.

the other day I was looking at some isk/hour thread and looked at my wallet journal. I had made about 30mil in bounty + mission rewards in the last hour. probably next to nothing in loot, and tbh I have no idea how much LP I gained, isk/lp I'd say usually can make 1k isk/lp, but it can jump between 500-5,000, depending on who you work for and how fast you want to sell stuff and at what volume.

when I do loot is is usually always enemies abound, some great loot in there, plus all the tags. and nearly 9k lp per mission. and I pretty rarely sell my loot, although it helps that I have a freighter and orca so I can move a lot of loot quickly. if I went to jita every 16 missions I'd be spending more time hauling that running missions :<

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-06-30 23:41:30 UTC
Thanks folks!
Delnas Sapphire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-01 03:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Delnas Sapphire
It seems that if you are under 500 DPS in level 4's you just aren't making enough money to warrant them, at least in my experience I would make more mining than I would in level 4's witha 450dps raven, working on training for a tengu as I hear they are faster/more efficient.
Janus Varg
Smoke Jaguars
#10 - 2012-07-01 04:39:30 UTC
Delnas Sapphire wrote:
It seems that if you are under 500 DPS in level 4's you just aren't making enough money to warrant them, at least in my experience I would make more mining than I would in level 4's witha 450dps raven, working on training for a tengu as I hear they are faster/more efficient.


Well, they're faster. I don't know how much damage you're going to do with heavies or HAMs if you can't do enough with cruises (or torps?) though.
Kalli Brixzat
#11 - 2012-07-01 05:52:49 UTC
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2012-07-01 06:30:26 UTC
worlds collide is one of the best missions for tengu. burn to the first gate and can start killing the bs on the way, or use a key, and when using the gate swap to t1/faction ammo, gank the frigs and burn to the gate, kill the 6 ships in the last room and mission done in ~8 mins (if you want to kill everything keep to that strategy and just orbit something with the ab going)

same with blockade, hit each trigger then kill the last ship, mission done!

massive attack isn't so great in caldari space because its em, and I don't like shooting em missiles in a tengu (although I may be a bit jaded on em/thrm missions from the nightmare/paladin)

with skills tengu should be faster than the raven on everything. the cnr gives it a bit more competition, one of the main arguments there is that people would rather train caldari cruiser and heavy missiles 5 than caldari bs and cruise missiles 5. and I'd say the other one is where lulz tank and speed are important tengu wins. for pure dps cnr has a bit of an advantage.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-07-01 08:03:31 UTC
Make sure to factor in ammo cost and corp tax, If you have 2 accounts you pay double the corp tax because they both get the hit.

And salvage/loot every mission, sell what sells for a good price, reprocess the rest then sell the minerals. should net you 15-30 mill a mission.

If you really want to cash in make rigs and use the minerals to make ammo and convert it to faction ammo.
Drakarin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-07-01 09:06:27 UTC
DTson Gauur wrote:
I generally do anything between 20 mil and 100 mil / hour depending on the missions. I don't salvage or loot, just kill and I also blitz the mission if it's possible. Hence for me the Cargo Delivery usually takes ~5 minutes from undock to turn in.

Never have bothered to calculate the income from LP to isk/hr since it fluctuates so wildly.


What mission could possibly pull 100 million an hour? The Assault, Dread pirate Scarlet, Worlds Collide, Recon 1/3 .. those are the highest paying missions, and none of them exceed 40 million in rewards.
DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
#15 - 2012-07-01 09:38:31 UTC
Drakarin wrote:
DTson Gauur wrote:
I generally do anything between 20 mil and 100 mil / hour depending on the missions. I don't salvage or loot, just kill and I also blitz the mission if it's possible. Hence for me the Cargo Delivery usually takes ~5 minutes from undock to turn in.

Never have bothered to calculate the income from LP to isk/hr since it fluctuates so wildly.


What mission could possibly pull 100 million an hour? The Assault, Dread pirate Scarlet, Worlds Collide, Recon 1/3 .. those are the highest paying missions, and none of them exceed 40 million in rewards.


Not a single mission of course, but if I have a bit of luck with the mission offers, I can have 4 or 5 high paying, quick completion mission inside an hour.

I seem to average around 40mil/h atm.

Remember, you CAN'T base your payment on a single mission or even a single day of missions. Run them for a week and make sure you record all completion times in minutes (undock -> turn in) and how much it paid. Then after a week, add all up and divide by 60. THAT is your expected average
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-01 10:54:41 UTC
to OP your isk an hour is totaly of as like another have said its a lot closer to 20 - 30 mill depending on missions something like dread pirate or an extravaganza around 40 mins avg to complete each yielding over 20 mill a run not includeing salvage and loot.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-01 11:01:26 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.



sorry but your wrong least within caldari space world collide and massive attack is more than easily done in a tengu as long as you make sure to take out groups i always do wc gurista/serpentis with a tengu in around 35 mins.

also your facts for a tengu is out a mission fit 1.6 bill tengu will produce about a 600 omni tank and well over 700 dps and will hole an explosive radius of under 104 on furry missles i think you should go and actualy have a review of the tengu and see what it can actualy do first hand.
Framer Otsada
Silencer corp
#18 - 2012-07-01 17:56:56 UTC
it depends. I always kill all the BS and leave if possible the rest. I use faction BS for that, but the most true part is that you need more than 1 ship to aim high on isk/hour. I assume around 40-50 mil should be on general isk/hour ration with a maxed faction BS .

Tengu is a nice ship .. but it depends where you play. If you need em/therm damage it is a bad ship to use . It all depends on the space for example ammar space you better be using lasers due to em/therm damage and most missions that require that , then have the tengu for exp/kin missions . Also , you may have sensor dampening missions that you will see a drone boat goes much faster.

In conclusion , stick to 1 space , build your hangar according to missions , learn to abadon the bad ones and accept those that suits you , and you can place a bottom isk/hour limit around 40 mils . Most of the times you will achieve more than that , but thats also according to your skills (maxed dps , defence skills and ofc what ships you can fly)

I hoped i helped

P.S. sorry for my english .. really trying to improve em
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#19 - 2012-07-01 18:20:36 UTC
Drakarin wrote:
DTson Gauur wrote:
I generally do anything between 20 mil and 100 mil / hour depending on the missions. I don't salvage or loot, just kill and I also blitz the mission if it's possible. Hence for me the Cargo Delivery usually takes ~5 minutes from undock to turn in.

Never have bothered to calculate the income from LP to isk/hr since it fluctuates so wildly.


What mission could possibly pull 100 million an hour? The Assault, Dread pirate Scarlet, Worlds Collide, Recon 1/3 .. those are the highest paying missions, and none of them exceed 40 million in rewards.


10-20mil in bounty, 8-9k lp, ~3mil in payout + bonus. tbh a lot of it depends on your lp conversion. but nearly every mission can be done in 20mins or less so say 20mil in 20mins would get you up to 60 mil/hour, add 9mil/hour for the mission reward, and then you have 9k lp to convert, at 1k isk/lp that would be another 27m/hour putting you just shy of 100m/hour. if you can get slightly better isk/lp there you go 100m/hour, or run the missions slightly faster,

of course you will probably also get a bunch of not so great missions thrown in there.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
drdxie
#20 - 2012-07-02 00:51:53 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.



If your Tengu battles in ANY mission you have fit it wrong. You don't have to gimp tank to make a Tengu shien in any mission. I can tank any mission full room aggro in my tengu which has 4 CN BCS's and 6 HML's and 1 explosion radius rig and 2 cap rigs. Adding more rigs is not going to make you insta pop frigs any quicker. I can stand sill and not die, well that is if I don't get neuted/nos'd. You clearly have no idea how to fit and fly a Tengu.

Just as a matter of interest, I dusted of my hulk and orca and just mining with 1 hulk and orca for support for one hour then refining and selling the minerals will get you round 70mil/hr. Crazy stuff..

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
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