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Eve versus Star Trek
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Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2012-06-18 09:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobach
Merin Ryskin wrote:
So what you're saying is that the producers of Star Trek decided that their audience would rather see a low-power universe that looks good on screen than a high-power universe that is less visually interesting. That's a perfectly valid choice to make, but you can't just throw out the results because you want to pretend that Star Trek has better weapons.


wrong, but good try at trying to paint me as a ST supporter here just because I disagree with the manner in which you guys were "debating". Like I said earlier, comparing the two is an exercise in futility, even more than the sheer inconsistency between what's shown on screen and what's said on screen in ST combat scenes, is the 238472903487 deus ex machinas that keeps getting pulled out of thin air all the time - what's the point of comparing who's guns are bigger if one side can just reverse the tachyon field and polarize some other stuff and implodes the universe? Not to mention you can't even compare who has the bigger gun, as the two universe works on fundamentally different physics.

Merin Ryskin wrote:
Yeah, they would have had to make a plot (shocking) that wasn't just a flimsy excuse to show a bunch of combat scenes. And we all know that could never happen...


yea, way to deflect the point I was making, which is that all TV/Movies takes artistic licence with their action scenes.

Merin Ryskin wrote:
No, I am consistently applying the canon policy as determined by the people who actually create Star Trek. The only possible reason to dispute what I'm saying is if you're a fanboy who can't stand the thought that Star Trek is on the far low end of science fiction military capability.


then you should apply the same standard to EVE, where the NPC ships have the tactical ability of about two neurons, all weapons fire will magically disappear after 250km, some weapon turrets couldn't track worth of **** for no apparent reason, and the fastest interceptor can't even match the orbiting speed of the space shuttle in normal flight. Oh, and planets don't actually orbit their suns, and a day doesn't even last one hour since the planets rotate so fast.

Oh, and for the record, I personally find Eve's technology to be more interesting and impressive, I'm just calling out the logical fallacies as I see them - you can't simply ignore the practical limitations on one side and not the other. It's especially ironic that you'd call me a ST fanboy when my original post is almost entirely against the ST crowd, yet because I called you out on the fact that you're using the same kind of fallacy as the ST crowd, I'm suddenly a ST fanboy? lol
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-06-18 09:51:49 UTC
Debates like this can be good fun if both sides can remain genuine and not degenerate into fanboy bickering. But then I suppose it wouldn't be much of a debate as both sides would then realize it's like trying to figure out whether the apple or the orange would win in a wine tasting contest hosted by magical leprechauns.

Would phaser and photon torps even work in the aether-filled universe of EVE? how would EVE's weapon fare against the Plot-Armored ST ships? maybe they'll be flagged as being invulnerable LOCs?
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#163 - 2012-06-26 02:28:33 UTC
You guys are forgetting, in Star Treck they'll probobly engage within sight range or a few hundred Kilometers at most.

Eve outnumbers.

Eve ships are f*cking ginormous compared to ST ones. I think you could fit 10 enterprises in a drake.

Eve has enough numbers to just blow up every federation planet.

Oh and even if the 'warpable torpedos" one shot eve ships, eve has more ships than they have torpedos lol
Mercurye
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-06-26 08:20:27 UTC
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
You guys are forgetting, in Star Treck they'll probobly engage within sight range or a few hundred Kilometers at most.

Eve outnumbers.

Eve ships are f*cking ginormous compared to ST ones. I think you could fit 10 enterprises in a drake.

Eve has enough numbers to just blow up every federation planet.

Oh and even if the 'warpable torpedos" one shot eve ships, eve has more ships than they have torpedos lol


Wut?

I doubt you can even fit more than a few Constitutions in a Drake, let alone Excelsior and upwards

It's just...EVE ships grow in size exponentionally compared to the ST ships (That generally stay in the cruiser/battlecruiser classes anway, I guess you could consider the Whale Ship and the V'ger as some sort of Titan/Mothership size wise)
Mercurye
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2012-06-26 08:22:09 UTC
Sobach wrote:
Debates like this can be good fun if both sides can remain genuine and not degenerate into fanboy bickering. But then I suppose it wouldn't be much of a debate as both sides would then realize it's like trying to figure out whether the apple or the orange would win in a wine tasting contest hosted by magical leprechauns.

Would phaser and photon torps even work in the aether-filled universe of EVE? how would EVE's weapon fare against the Plot-Armored ST ships? maybe they'll be flagged as being invulnerable LOCs?


That's how I feel in general! :)

*curls up in a ball..of hope*
Reiisha
#166 - 2012-06-26 10:59:29 UTC
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
You guys are forgetting, in Star Treck they'll probobly engage within sight range or a few hundred Kilometers at most.

Eve outnumbers.

Eve ships are f*cking ginormous compared to ST ones. I think you could fit 10 enterprises in a drake.

Eve has enough numbers to just blow up every federation planet.

Oh and even if the 'warpable torpedos" one shot eve ships, eve has more ships than they have torpedos lol


EVE battlecruisers like the Enterprise D/E and the Constitution are all 800m to 1000m long - Roughly the same size as EVE battleships. A drake is roughly the same size as the original Enterprise, around 300m.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Mercurye
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-06-26 11:54:45 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
You guys are forgetting, in Star Treck they'll probobly engage within sight range or a few hundred Kilometers at most.

Eve outnumbers.

Eve ships are f*cking ginormous compared to ST ones. I think you could fit 10 enterprises in a drake.

Eve has enough numbers to just blow up every federation planet.

Oh and even if the 'warpable torpedos" one shot eve ships, eve has more ships than they have torpedos lol


EVE battlecruisers like the Enterprise D/E and the Constitution are all 800m to 1000m long - Roughly the same size as EVE battleships. A drake is roughly the same size as the original Enterprise, around 300m.


Well they arent really BC's as we know them in EVE...atleast not the Federation cruisers; they're more aimed at exploration, science and self-defense. Klingon cruisers however...

And none of them are 800m + either :P (A Galaxy class is at +/-650m) The Consitution class is the original -TOS- Enterprise by the way, the refit is the Enterprise B


PS: Envious of your portrait, pretty, well done ^^ :)
Jayarr Altol
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#168 - 2012-06-27 09:18:00 UTC
Concord Deathray.
That is all.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#169 - 2012-06-28 00:36:30 UTC
This thing is relevent
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#170 - 2012-06-28 01:48:41 UTC
the defiant could certainly kick some ass, but it was a good show of what happens when the Federation actually focuses on warfare.


That romulan ship from Star Trek Nemisis would suck to fight in EVE, it can shoot while cloaked!

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2012-06-28 05:51:38 UTC
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
the defiant could certainly kick some ass, but it was a good show of what happens when the Federation actually focuses on warfare.


That romulan ship from Star Trek Nemisis would suck to fight in EVE, it can shoot while cloaked!

smart bombs and the titan AOE DD. it existed before, so the tech is clearly in the eve galaxy meaning they could bring it back for the fight if needed.
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2012-06-28 07:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Copine Callmeknau
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
the defiant could certainly kick some ass, but it was a good show of what happens when the Federation actually focuses on warfare.


That romulan ship from Star Trek Nemisis would suck to fight in EVE, it can shoot while cloaked!

Also Romulans and the Federation both have phasic cloaks, not only making them completely undetectable, but also giving them the ability to pass through solid matter.

They could for instance carve the top off a mountain, install a phasic cloak and a power generator in the multi-billion tonne piece of rock they now have, and then simply throw it at a titan and disengage the cloak when the titan and the rock are occupying the same area of space. Boom.

Beats a DD any day.



EDIT: I so don't have an opinion on EVE vs ST, just saw an episode of ST last night that had phasic cloaks in it ^^

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#173 - 2012-06-28 13:14:42 UTC
dont forget, Good luck warp scrambling a federation ship. those engineers would just bounce a tachyon beam off a graviton emitter and cancel out the warp scramble field while causing the offending frigate to explode from the power backlash.


There is one scifi ship that I know could likely take on a Titan and its support fleet head on....

the city of Atlanis with a full rack of ZPMs and a full storage bay of those ancient drones.(though that is Stargate, not Startrek)

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
Demonthese2211
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-06-29 04:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Demonthese2211
icantseeshidtcaptain wrote:
that is a shame - I always found it strange that the eve ships don't move much faster than airliners, despite being in space.......


I'm assuming for gameplay reasons but the EVE physics model is not based on space. The physics model bases movement and the like off of a fluid model, basically we do not fly internet spaceships. We more accurately fly internet submarines.

Same as above weapon ranges/damage/other stuff is all balanced around gameplay an not realism. It would be interesting if CCP made some sort of accurate analysis for weapons/ships.
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#175 - 2012-07-01 04:20:25 UTC
actually the big thing for trek ships would be against interceptors. seems since TNG on there is no such thing as tracking, the phasers seem to shoot in any direction the plot requires them to.


This brings up an interesting question.... could an EM and Thermal tanked drake permatank the entire star trek fleet? okay yea bad question, a properly setup drake could probally eat the super laser from the Death Star in Star Wars.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-07-01 07:47:09 UTC
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:

This brings up an interesting question.... could an EM and Thermal tanked drake permatank the entire star trek fleet? okay yea bad question, a properly setup drake could probally eat the super laser from the Death Star in Star Wars.

"FIRE!!"
*BWWWAAAAAAAAMMM*
"I think we charred some of the armor this time, better charge it back up again"
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#177 - 2012-07-01 13:48:55 UTC
I think the Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, Caldari ships stand no chance against Star Trek era ships.


BUT..


Jovians and Sleepers? I think they'd fair just fine in a "Star Trek" type setting. I mean..Sleeper maintenance drones destroy the best variants of our combat ships.. imagine what military grade technology could do!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2012-07-01 16:31:54 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
the defiant could certainly kick some ass, but it was a good show of what happens when the Federation actually focuses on warfare.


That romulan ship from Star Trek Nemisis would suck to fight in EVE, it can shoot while cloaked!

Also Romulans and the Federation both have phasic cloaks, not only making them completely undetectable, but also giving them the ability to pass through solid matter.

They could for instance carve the top off a mountain, install a phasic cloak and a power generator in the multi-billion tonne piece of rock they now have, and then simply throw it at a titan and disengage the cloak when the titan and the rock are occupying the same area of space. Boom.

Beats a DD any day.



EDIT: I so don't have an opinion on EVE vs ST, just saw an episode of ST last night that had phasic cloaks in it ^^


EVE ships warp through planets without a cloakBlink
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2012-07-02 01:31:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
the defiant could certainly kick some ass, but it was a good show of what happens when the Federation actually focuses on warfare.


That romulan ship from Star Trek Nemisis would suck to fight in EVE, it can shoot while cloaked!

Also Romulans and the Federation both have phasic cloaks, not only making them completely undetectable, but also giving them the ability to pass through solid matter.

They could for instance carve the top off a mountain, install a phasic cloak and a power generator in the multi-billion tonne piece of rock they now have, and then simply throw it at a titan and disengage the cloak when the titan and the rock are occupying the same area of space. Boom.

Beats a DD any day.



EDIT: I so don't have an opinion on EVE vs ST, just saw an episode of ST last night that had phasic cloaks in it ^^


EVE ships warp through planets without a cloakBlink

from what I've heard, they can fly through planets too without a cloak. it just takes a long time.
kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
#180 - 2012-08-30 04:25:02 UTC