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Force Field Generator
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#41 - 2012-06-29 20:43:59 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Have you ever tried to warp into an unfriendly POS?? Or have you ever tried to fly into an unfriendly POS? The POS bubble mechanics stop your approach, and your warp, on the edge of the bubble.

With this in mind, here's some ways to abuse your idea:

Option 1: Go to belt (ice belt prefered)... fly up next to a mackinaw that is mining your ice.... turn on bubble and watch them float away... laugh when they drift out of Ice mining laser range and get nothing for the cyle.

Option 2: Put orca on a gate in lowsec.... If a ship comes through and tries to power back to gate, turn on bubble to block their approach.

-- edit: Option 2a: Get a bunch of Orca Pilots and block all travel through the gate of your choice... Noone can enter jita by Perimeter anymore, or whatever...

-- edit: Option 2b: Rapecage Jita 4-4 with orcas!!!

Option 3: Put orca on undock.... when a ship undocks, turn on bubble.... collision effects between undock, ship speed, and the station could be al sorts of interesting.... Also, if any capitals try to cyno into a station, I recommend using this to bounce them off.

Option 4: In lowsec, at busy stations that people typically warp to, position orca right outside of station inline with the most common warp in.... put up bubble whenever someone is landing on grid to prevent them from landing within dock range of the station.... then gank them!

These popped into my head when I actually read your mechanics, and I'm sure some more ingenious members of the community can further break your idea...



Option 1 - Bubble range ~ 3.5km. Mining range ~ 15km. Make the ship speed when pushed by bubble to be it's top speed and you can no longer push ships out of mining range if they're in a short range to begin with. If they're not, them's the breaks.

Option 2 - Bubble can't be accessed if there is a POS, Gate or Station on grid

Option 3 - See option 2 answer above.


For every argument against I have a solution :)


EDIT: You could go the full hog and set it so the bubble module can't be activated unless there is at least one mineable roid (or harvestable gas?) on grid and there isn't a gate, POS or station on grid. I think this basically covers it.


First off, a POS is a static structure that takes decent forethought and effort to anchor and online.... This is a lazyman's tool to defend their ships that requires laughable effort at best...

Second, the mining ship lineup is getting a serious review (with likely buffs incoming)... With the upcoming changes, I really don't see any NEED for this module just to protect mining vessels.

Thirdly... while you can solve many of the "unintended uses" of this force field, it's those unintended uses that actually give this idea any merit whatsoever.... The idea that I could get 50 ocra pilots together and rapecage jita IV-IV is EXTREMELY appealing, and in my opinion, is a worthy tradeoff for adding such a ******** "force field my hulk" mechanic...

Finally, let's really examine how this proposal:
-- I want a forcefield to instantly protect all ships around an orca, for several minutes... Why??? Because I don't feel I can adequately protect my miners through other means?? How about you just tell CCP what the inadequacies of your mining vessels are instead, so they can actually take them into account when revamping them over the next 6 months. (note: just becuase your too stubborn to chose tanking over yield, does not mean a vessel can't be tanked... this is an adapt or die game).

-- I don't want to sacrifice fitting a gang link the orca for such an exceptionally powerful mechanic, and ask for an extra highslot to make it happen??? REALLY... I mean REALLY?? You realise this is a game of tradeoffs... and to get an 'awesome' new forcefield, you should have to at least sacrifice a highslot. This is like asking for a candybar from the clerk yet your unwilling to pay for it...

-- The ORCA is protected too.... WTF.... If there EVER is to be a force field module to protect neighboring ships, it ABSOLUTELY MUST BE VULNERABLE.... This is the minimum tradeoff for such a blatantly superpowerful device...

-- Oh, to protect from unintended uses that might actually add create new and interesting forms of game play, I'll add a whole bunch of special addendums that bloat this idea like a dead man bloats with gaseous crap emissions!!!!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#42 - 2012-06-29 20:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Here's the TL; DR; of this entire idea/thread:

OP:> I have an AWESOME IDEA... I should be able to make my favorite ships invincible!!!!

Community:> Well, what do you feel is a fair tradeoff for invincibility??

OP:> We'll limit the invicibility to a maximum 5 minute duration, and make it only protect my favorite class of ships....

Community:> and??

OP:> Isn't that enough... It protects my stuff, and gives me invicibility at the push of a button... but since I have to push a button, there's a tradeoff!

Community:> Grow up or go AWAY!!!!
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-06-29 21:42:14 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Knowing the general responses to people wanting to protect their mining assets you're probably going to get flamed.

For me though, I love the idea.

It might make Orca's a bit too powerful though.

Think about it. The OP suggested giving it only enough fuel-capacity for 5 minutes. That gives it 5 minutes to either get away (for balancing, maybe make it like Industrial Cores and Siege Mode and that. Can't move, but boosts other stats) or get reinforcements into the belt. I don't live in null-sec myself, but I have a feeling a proper Null-sec corp would be able to send defense-ships within those 5 minutes. If no back-up arrives, the Orca will have to rely on its own tank to survive. I'm not really a null-sec overlord or an elite-PvPer, but I'm pretty sure 5 minutes are a long time for the gankers, but barely noticable for the miners being protected. And besides, nobody said you can't just deploy a Warp Disruptor Bubble right next to the Orca (or multiple around it), so the ships protected would also be prevented from warping away without flying out of the force-field. I'd say there are pretty many ways to circumvent the whole "Orca Forcefield Immunity" thing gankers are complaining about. It's a sandbox. You just have to be creative and think outside the box. How hard can that be?

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#44 - 2012-06-29 22:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Have you ever tried to warp into an unfriendly POS?? Or have you ever tried to fly into an unfriendly POS? The POS bubble mechanics stop your approach, and your warp, on the edge of the bubble.

With this in mind, here's some ways to abuse your idea:

Option 1: Go to belt (ice belt prefered)... fly up next to a mackinaw that is mining your ice.... turn on bubble and watch them float away... laugh when they drift out of Ice mining laser range and get nothing for the cyle.

Option 2: Put orca on a gate in lowsec.... If a ship comes through and tries to power back to gate, turn on bubble to block their approach.

-- edit: Option 2a: Get a bunch of Orca Pilots and block all travel through the gate of your choice... Noone can enter jita by Perimeter anymore, or whatever...

-- edit: Option 2b: Rapecage Jita 4-4 with orcas!!!

Option 3: Put orca on undock.... when a ship undocks, turn on bubble.... collision effects between undock, ship speed, and the station could be al sorts of interesting.... Also, if any capitals try to cyno into a station, I recommend using this to bounce them off.

Option 4: In lowsec, at busy stations that people typically warp to, position orca right outside of station inline with the most common warp in.... put up bubble whenever someone is landing on grid to prevent them from landing within dock range of the station.... then gank them!

These popped into my head when I actually read your mechanics, and I'm sure some more ingenious members of the community can further break your idea...


Most of those can be handled by making this a module that cannot be activated within 300 km of a gate, station, or POS. (Using it to bump other miners would still be an issue.) Also remember it only runs for 5 minutes. Then you got to dock and get more fuel.
Also, maybe it would be just a targeting blocking bubble, not a full POS force field. Then all bumping goes away. But.. that is sort of like an ecm burst, and in high sec that can get you concorded. If you turned this on in high sec and caught a neutral in it, should that not be just as serious an offense?

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TALON ISHTAR
Miner's Aggressive Behavior
#45 - 2012-06-30 17:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: TALON ISHTAR
The force field generator rules would be, if it was made.

1. It can only activate in a asteroid belt or an ice field within 250K of the field becon.
(This would disable most of the misuses of the module for aggressive acts.)

2. The Orca's force field generator will only activate with an industral ship or ships that are in fleet within 3.500 meters of the orca.
( This would cover another part of its misuse of unwanted bumping or pushing ships away. )

3. The cycle time on the force field generator would be 60 seconds per activation and the Orca would carry enough fuel for 5 activations before it has to dock to refuel.

4. The range of the force field bubble would be 7.000 meters in circumference, enough space to protect a fleet of 8 hulks or macks from danger for 60 seconds giving the ships the room and time to warp to the station.

5. All mining locks would be broken as well as ganking ships locks when the force field generator is active for 60 seconds.

6. If any drones are out in space when the force field generator is activated the connection to the ship will be lost, and the drones would stop dead in space and have to be scooped back to the drone bay when the force field is inactive.

7. No target locks can be esablished inside the force field bubble.

8. All none industral ships would be ejected from the force field bubble opon activation of the force field.
( This would cover the greatest amount of misuse of the module. )

9. Only 1 Orca force field generator can be used in fleet per squadron.

10. The Orca will be renderd emoble in space for 60 seconds untill the force field generator completes it cycle.
( Just like the cyno generator )

With all of these rules in place, how else the Force field generator module can be used for, other than protecting a mining fleets in hi security space. And yes my hulk and mack is fitted for tank 15.000 EFT, but we all know thats not enough. If CCP would add another 10.000 EFT on top of the 15K i have now then it would be 25.000 EFT hulk or mack then there would be no need for this module then all the gankers and greiffer would go nuts because the hulks and the macks are not soft targets anymore and thay would have to find some other way to **** on or **** off players in eve.
Jade Raikki
Darc Ray Inc
#46 - 2012-06-30 22:28:15 UTC
Agreed, as long as you make it that it cannot be activated in the same grid as a pos or a station and no combat/non-industrial ships that are not in the same fleet / corp can enter it. Also, the module must not be allowed to activate if combat and/or out of corp/fleet ships are within its radius, to prevent abuse.
TALON ISHTAR
Miner's Aggressive Behavior
#47 - 2012-07-01 18:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: TALON ISHTAR
Jade Raikki wrote:
Agreed, as long as you make it that it cannot be activated in the same grid as a pos or a station and no combat/non-industrial ships that are not in the same fleet / corp can enter it.



Also, the module must not be allowed to activate if combat and/or out of corp/fleet ships are within its radius, to prevent abuse.



If the aggressors ship warps on top of the orca it would not let the force field generator to activate and that would leave the ships open to attack and render the force field generator useless, and thats is no good, you want to push away any close ships from the fleet to keep them from getting attacked in the frist place.

Like i was saying before when other combat ships put on a micro warp drive and start ramming ships in the belts or the stations nothing can be done about that besause its a none aggressive tactic and its part of the game, and so should it be for the force field generator on the orca as well a none aggressive tactic to protect the fleet.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#48 - 2012-07-02 10:50:30 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Here's the TL; DR; of this entire idea/thread:

OP:> I have an AWESOME IDEA... I should be able to make my favorite ships invincible!!!!

Community:> Well, what do you feel is a fair tradeoff for invincibility??

OP:> We'll limit the invicibility to a maximum 5 minute duration, and make it only protect my favorite class of ships....

Community:> and??

OP:> Isn't that enough... It protects my stuff, and gives me invicibility at the push of a button... but since I have to push a button, there's a tradeoff!

Community:> Grow up or go AWAY!!!!




You clearly haven't read the thread. Quite a few people seem to think that whilst in it's original iteration it was too powerful they do like the concept.
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