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Force Field Generator
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Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#21 - 2012-06-28 19:30:20 UTC
TALON ISHTAR wrote:
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
I can see it. A bunch of droneboats hide in shield and kill attackers without retribution, in highsec.

-1


The force field will only allow industrals ships in the bubble no combat ships, combat ships can protect them selfs if attacked in hi sec.



You realize that exhumers and barges can carry drones? A bunch of sentry and ecm drones in a hulk is a formidable pvp combo if there is tank. And a portable shield is that tank.

All you need is go to the trade hubs and camp the spawn with a bunch of droneboat fit industrials, and trade hub station camping wardecs are suddenly even more common.

As I said:

-1

Any highsec miner worth their salt knows how to deal with gankers.

I mined in a hulk during hulkaggendon several hundred million isk worth of veldy, scordy, and plagio with no loses. There are mechanics in place that provide for effective defense of mining fleets from ganking. The only boat that cannot escape a gank attempt (the orca) can tank them like a boss.

And if your corp is at war, you shouldn't be mining at all. You should be station camping or hunting the WTs.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#22 - 2012-06-28 19:40:22 UTC
TALON ISHTAR wrote:
And i cant see how would the shield bubble would be abused if its ment just for the protection of industral ships, it would give time to safely warp the ships to the station.


See my earlier Post.... you just need to think outside your box...

How to abuse your shield bubble!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2012-06-28 22:06:58 UTC
Maybe it would be simpler, if the operation of this shield required the Orca to be on grid with the belt. Ice or ore, it doesn't matter.

Same way you can't put up a POS except in a lunar orbit.

No abuse possible then, except if somehow staged at the belt.

Add the cyno locks to it, if not already done, so it can't move or do anything till the cycle completes.

And I am still waiting to hear about whether it is possible to let your drones fight something while you are inside POS shields. I simply never tried that.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#24 - 2012-06-28 22:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And I am still waiting to hear about whether it is possible to let your drones fight something while you are inside POS shields. I simply never tried that.

It isn't possible to deploy drones while inside POS shields... however... one tactic that drone-heavy ships and carriers do during POS defense ops is poke themselves just outside the shields and deploy their drones at the enemy. When in danger, they recall everything and withdraw back into the shields. It's not too much of a stretch to see tanked Hulks doing the same thing.

How did you Veterans start?
TALON ISHTAR
Miner's Aggressive Behavior
#25 - 2012-06-28 22:40:54 UTC
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
TALON ISHTAR wrote:
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
I can see it. A bunch of droneboats hide in shield and kill attackers without retribution, in highsec.

-1


The force field will only allow industrals ships in the bubble no combat ships, combat ships can protect them selfs if attacked in hi sec.



You realize that exhumers and barges can carry drones? A bunch of sentry and ecm drones in a hulk is a formidable pvp combo if there is tank. And a portable shield is that tank.

All you need is go to the trade hubs and camp the spawn with a bunch of droneboat fit industrials, and trade hub station camping wardecs are suddenly even more common.

As I said:

-1

Any highsec miner worth their salt knows how to deal with gankers.

I mined in a hulk during hulkaggendon several hundred million isk worth of veldy, scordy, and plagio with no loses. There are mechanics in place that provide for effective defense of mining fleets from ganking. The only boat that cannot escape a gank attempt (the orca) can tank them like a boss.

And if your corp is at war, you shouldn't be mining at all. You should be station camping or hunting the WTs.


I respect what your saying about mining during hulkaggendon because i did the same, but at the time you and i were mining thay did not have the T3 battle cruisers that can put out 6000 to 8000 HP per volly at 15 to 20K, seen it happen a fully tanked mack with fleet shield boosting fall to a T3 battle cruiser and still be able to warp away and come back and gank another mack on the other side of the ice belt before concord would finally kill the ganker.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#26 - 2012-06-28 23:06:54 UTC
It's all about the range dictation and projecting your DPS. Orbiting is not optimal, unless you are much faster than they are. I'm not sure how other people do it, but I generally have my default "Keep at Range" to 100km and I alternate between approaching the target and "Keeping at Range" to them in order to control my range and prevent them from escaping, etc, otherwise I manually pilot although that takes more practice/reflexes/experience to pull off.
TALON ISHTAR
Miner's Aggressive Behavior
#27 - 2012-06-28 23:53:17 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
TALON ISHTAR wrote:
I respect what your saying about mining during hulkaggendon because i did the same, but at the time you and i were mining thay did not have the T3 battle cruisers that can put out 6000 to 8000 HP per volly at 15 to 20K, seen it happen a fully tanked mack with fleet shield boosting fall to a T3 battle cruiser and still be able to warp away and come back and gank another mack on the other side of the ice belt before concord would finally kill the ganker.
Mack's are gimped by their fitting limits to the point it's had to have a 20+k EHP tank (before gang boosts that is). A tier3 BC can lay out 12-16k per shot at 15+km's. Warping away from the scene is now an exploit... if they shoot you and go gcc, they aren't allowed to warp off... You'll have new and improved exhumers this winter... They won't be abusable like your shield bubble idea... Given it's potential for abuse, do you really this is a good idea?? Is it too much to ask you take advantage of what's availalbe to you now, and to take some pleasure knowing that mining ships will be upgraded and rebalanced soon????


We both know the exhumer rebalance is not going to be enough to keep a hulk or mack from popping.

And yes i still believe that the force field generator is a great idea.

1. If anyone in their right mind would try to gate camp a low or null security space in an orca is asking for a hot drop on top of them.
2. A 7.000 meter shield bubble is not going to block a jump gate, and the odds of an orca being right under or aside a ship rushing back through the gate is like 10.000 to 100.000 to 1 that the ship will spawn next to the orca.
3. The same thing can be said if you put a micro warp drive on the orca and any other ship for that matter and start ramming fleets or ships in the belts or ships comming out of the stations it not consitered as abuse or a concordable offense, as for the force field bubble pushing ships away from the fleet is the same thing would apply it's not consitered as abuse or a concordable offense.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-29 00:11:02 UTC
TALON ISHTAR wrote:
What i ment for the force field generator is to be used in Hi security space, a small corp or alliance is not going to mine in low or null security space with out heavy support wich no small corp or alliance has. The miners like myself only mine in hi securty space, that is where we are having the biggest problem with the gankers in hi security space. If used in low or null securty space the orca would be the target cause the orca cant move while the bubble is active. I know all the gankers are going to cry about the force field module cause thay will loose out on eazy hulk or mack kills and clam its unfair because thay cant kill the industrial ships, i dont see how the force field generator can be abused if it is geared to protect the mining fleet.


I see, so this is all just a way to throw a fit about ganking.

In that case, hell no.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#29 - 2012-06-29 00:15:05 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And I am still waiting to hear about whether it is possible to let your drones fight something while you are inside POS shields. I simply never tried that.

It isn't possible to deploy drones while inside POS shields... however... one tactic that drone-heavy ships and carriers do during POS defense ops is poke themselves just outside the shields and deploy their drones at the enemy. When in danger, they recall everything and withdraw back into the shields. It's not too much of a stretch to see tanked Hulks doing the same thing.

Ahhh, technically not inside the shields during the drone usage.

This idea may not be the best solution, but it is creative. If they can qualify it properly, it could be workable.

I still don't see a problem if this function is limited to belts only.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
TALON ISHTAR
Miner's Aggressive Behavior
#30 - 2012-06-29 00:37:58 UTC
Some good ideas did come up so far.
1. Making the force field generator only operable within 300 Kilometers from any asteroid or ice belts. (wich i think is fair)
This will remove the ability of the force field generator to activate other than in a belt.

2. If a corp or alliance is at war the force field generator module on the orca will be disabled till all wars are over or the pilot joins an NPC corp. This will remove the ability of using the force field generator during war.

3. Making the force field bubble 7.000 meter in circumference that is 3500 meters from the center of the orca. So any other ships closer than 3500 meters not being an industrial ship and in fleet will be puched away, this will secure the protection of industrial ships only.
Lets see what else come up.
MacsDad Sandusky
darkmoon mining unlimited
#31 - 2012-06-29 01:56:00 UTC
I think this is a great idea. After all a -10.0 player is allowed to hide behind the shields of a POS belonging to another player who is not even in the same corp, and all you can do is watch him or shoot and loose your ship to CONCORD. It's about time to even things up. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#32 - 2012-06-29 02:42:04 UTC
So if you are in this bubble how does somebody else shoot and kill you?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Sables
Amarrian Wealth Management
#33 - 2012-06-29 02:53:27 UTC
TALON ISHTAR wrote:


All my hulks and the macks are heavly tanked and spider tanking T2 med shield drones but its still not enough.

And i cant see how would the shield bubble would be abused if its ment just for the protection of industral ships, it would give time to safely warp the ships to the station.


Perhaps if you quit whining on the forums about mean people killing your ships, you would get ganked less.

Rather than putting terrible ideas like this out in public , you should attempt to maintain a low profile.

Right now you are only painting a target on your back.
Renae Ishikela
Flux Convergence Inc.
#34 - 2012-06-29 02:57:10 UTC
Force field on an orca?? From a miner's perspective it sounds fair enough... but you have to take into account people smart enough to use this as an exploit.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-29 08:25:13 UTC
As I understand you guys want that force field Orca in Hisec in the first place to secure mining from ganking?

I guess the reasons for that are to minimize the mining effort (security wise) and maximize the ore amounts and profit?

I think the risk vs. reward is the best in hisec atm, so this mechanic would actually raise the reward and lower the risk. This is a clear no no.

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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#36 - 2012-06-29 09:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Have you ever tried to warp into an unfriendly POS?? Or have you ever tried to fly into an unfriendly POS? The POS bubble mechanics stop your approach, and your warp, on the edge of the bubble.

With this in mind, here's some ways to abuse your idea:

Option 1: Go to belt (ice belt prefered)... fly up next to a mackinaw that is mining your ice.... turn on bubble and watch them float away... laugh when they drift out of Ice mining laser range and get nothing for the cyle.

Option 2: Put orca on a gate in lowsec.... If a ship comes through and tries to power back to gate, turn on bubble to block their approach.

-- edit: Option 2a: Get a bunch of Orca Pilots and block all travel through the gate of your choice... Noone can enter jita by Perimeter anymore, or whatever...

-- edit: Option 2b: Rapecage Jita 4-4 with orcas!!!

Option 3: Put orca on undock.... when a ship undocks, turn on bubble.... collision effects between undock, ship speed, and the station could be al sorts of interesting.... Also, if any capitals try to cyno into a station, I recommend using this to bounce them off.

Option 4: In lowsec, at busy stations that people typically warp to, position orca right outside of station inline with the most common warp in.... put up bubble whenever someone is landing on grid to prevent them from landing within dock range of the station.... then gank them!

These popped into my head when I actually read your mechanics, and I'm sure some more ingenious members of the community can further break your idea...



Option 1 - Bubble range ~ 3.5km. Mining range ~ 15km. Make the ship speed when pushed by bubble to be it's top speed and you can no longer push ships out of mining range if they're in a short range to begin with. If they're not, them's the breaks.

Option 2 - Bubble can't be accessed if there is a POS, Gate or Station on grid

Option 3 - See option 2 answer above.


For every argument against I have a solution :)


EDIT: You could go the full hog and set it so the bubble module can't be activated unless there is at least one mineable roid (or harvestable gas?) on grid and there isn't a gate, POS or station on grid. I think this basically covers it.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#37 - 2012-06-29 09:39:20 UTC
negative.

It seems there are more Orcas than Frigs around.
Might work for Rorquals or even just Motherships.

Thought about this long time ago for motherships (its allready in the name: moveable station / pos).
Nomad all the way.

My true stories
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#38 - 2012-06-29 10:10:57 UTC
I have no problem with this BUT while in the force field you are unable to use your mining lasers. Changing mechanics to make you gank-proof should include a reduction in reward. Otherwise, this is just a "Gankers need to stop shooting at me" thread.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#39 - 2012-06-29 10:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Sables wrote:
TALON ISHTAR wrote:


All my hulks and the macks are heavly tanked and spider tanking T2 med shield drones but its still not enough.

And i cant see how would the shield bubble would be abused if its ment just for the protection of industral ships, it would give time to safely warp the ships to the station.


Perhaps if you quit whining on the forums about mean people killing your ships, you would get ganked less.

Rather than putting terrible ideas like this out in public , you should attempt to maintain a low profile.

Right now you are only painting a target on your back.



That so? I have a giant great target on my back and a small one on my forehead. Come get me Big smile
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#40 - 2012-06-29 14:33:05 UTC
Force field is very interesting idea. Both for mining and combat.

+1
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