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Crashing (small) Gate Camps
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Aulx-Gao Ekanon
#1 - 2012-06-25 21:18:44 UTC
Until now I have focused on avoiding gate camps in low sec. I've become tired of the detours they create so now I think I'd like to crash them. I've read some other threads suggesting T2 frigates for this. Since it will be a week or two before I have the skills to fly those, do I have any hope of accomplishing the same goal in a T1 frigate or destroyer? What are suggested fittings?

Training so far has emphasized hybrid turrets, drones and Gallente frigates.

Suggestions appreciated.

_Naughty by nature, wicked by choice. _
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#2 - 2012-06-25 21:27:43 UTC
Define what you mean by 'crashing' for starters.

Are you suggesting attacking them solo? If so you will need more than a T1 frigate. Slicer maybe but they'd have to be dumb campers to aggro something they couldn't hit.

If you are talking about bypassing them by flying through them, then it all depends on their composition. Some camps with Insta-locking Lokis for example you'll struggle to bypass even in a shuttle/pod. If they have T1/T2 cruisers and above though you'd probably be safe in most frigates unless they are plated.

Be aware too it is advisable to make bookmarks >150km off the gate to warp to then warp down to gate to avoid smartbombs.
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#3 - 2012-06-25 21:35:54 UTC
Depends on the camp but here is some advice -

take a well tanked tristan or incursus or shield maulus. must have a mwd, if you have room fit a mwd & ab.

When you jump into a camp hold your jump cloak (it last 60 secs). Look around at what they have, learn to recognize the sensor booster graphic, look for the ship class heavy interdictor, look for logistics ships which can keep frigate alive from gate guns.

If you see lots of sensor booster graphics and or heavy interdictor, small ships with logistic support prepare to burn back toward the gate you jumped in from. Hit approach gate, mwd on, & hope your tank and speed holds up, if you make it back to gate jump thru and rethink your route.

If you don't see sensor booster graphics and or heavy interdictors try to warp off.

Yopp
Aulx-Gao Ekanon
#4 - 2012-06-25 21:37:31 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Define what you mean by 'crashing' for starters.


I'd like to make them asplode. :)
At this point in my training I don't really expect to survive the encounter, but I'd like to at least survive long enough to learn something from it and hopefully do some damage to the campers.
I realize if there are Loki's and Canes my chances are slim to none, but I'm betting that the site I have in mind is being camped but some less impressive ships. The location has little traffic and the gate is not often camped, but when it is I think it would be fun to evict them.

Since I don't plan to run should I stick with a frigate and make use of its speed or should I go with a destroyer and hope I can do enough damage to take some of them out?

_Naughty by nature, wicked by choice. _
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-06-25 23:58:59 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Define what you mean by 'crashing' for starters.


I'd like to make them asplode. :)
At this point in my training I don't really expect to survive the encounter, but I'd like to at least survive long enough to learn something from it and hopefully do some damage to the campers.
I realize if there are Loki's and Canes my chances are slim to none, but I'm betting that the site I have in mind is being camped but some less impressive ships. The location has little traffic and the gate is not often camped, but when it is I think it would be fun to evict them.

Since I don't plan to run should I stick with a frigate and make use of its speed or should I go with a destroyer and hope I can do enough damage to take some of them out?


Since you are talking about low-sec - neither will generally work, unless you are up against some pretty fail gate-campers, which mind you, could be the case. Frigate and Destroyer tactics for gate-camps are generally undertaken in null-sec. There will seldom be a viable target or a scenario in a low-sec gate camp for ships that size.

However, if you insist on practising - there are a few things you can do to in a small, fast, agile ship. Once you jump in, as the poster above mentioned, assess the situation, your distance from enemies, what they are and what kind of mods are they running. You always want to watch out for sensor boosted ships and scram/web/neut bonused ships. You also need to determine what ships are in the gate-camp and what their effective gun-ranges are.

If the gate-camp is small enough and there are no web/scram bonused ships around and you are sufficiently distanced from any sensor boosted ships (i.e. out of scram/web/neut range which is generally 10-15km; although for neuts it will depend on their size), you can break your cloak and burn away from the gate-camp. Remember that it takes a a few seconds for ships to lock a frigate, especially if they are not sensor-boosted, so in a fast frigate you can easily cover 20-30km or more before anything even locks you.

Ensure that your transversal speed remains high against all targets in range (by 'range', I mean effective gun range) - you can add a transversal speed column in your overview settings. At this point you can also determine if there are any ships actually chasing you. If the ship(s) chasing you are something that you can effectively take on, tackle and kill (again this will rarely be the case) you can flip around and do so. There are of course numerous considerations to take into account here as well, namely your transversal on approach, what the ship chasing you actually is, is he alone, how far away is he from other ships still camping the gate... and so on.

You are best to go out in a long-point ship (Warp Disruptor) with ~20km gun/missile range at least. A Imp Navy Slicer may be the best ship for this that comes to mind. At around 20km you avoid being scrammed, webbed and neuted (medium neuts). There are also a lot of things to continually watch out for, such as that you don't burn away too far (over 150km from other enemy ships) as then they can warp to your target and get into the mix; maintaining your orbit and transversal, as at 20km you will most likely be in the fall-off range of the enemy ship. Generally, in a small ship though, you do have that GTFO factor, which basically means, if things start going wrong-ish, you most likely have the ability to just burn away and warp out.

Anywho, hope the above helps – I could have gone on for pages as there are so many different scenarios to consider, but my recommendation for your situation would be to just bring some friends and blow them up the conventional, blobby way. Frig/Destroyer will struggle to take on any semi-competent gate camp.

Good luck.
drdxie
#6 - 2012-06-26 01:42:46 UTC
The ship to be most careful at gate camps is the T3 BC's. Their damage output is enough to very quickly wear down the strongest of tank pretty quickly, and if you crashing the gate you will no doubt have your mwd on so you will be a nice big fat target that they can't miss.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#7 - 2012-06-26 22:09:20 UTC
Katie Frost wrote:

but my recommendation for your situation would be to just bring some friends and blow them up the conventional, blobby way.



What he says tbh.
Carmine Terriv
Tundra Technologies
#8 - 2012-06-27 15:28:04 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Until now I have focused on avoiding gate camps in low sec. I've become tired of the detours they create so now I think I'd like to crash them. I've read some other threads suggesting T2 frigates for this. Since it will be a week or two before I have the skills to fly those, do I have any hope of accomplishing the same goal in a T1 frigate or destroyer? What are suggested fittings?

Training so far has emphasized hybrid turrets, drones and Gallente frigates.

Suggestions appreciated.


A proper gate-camp will (nowdays) have a near instalocking tackle and solid fire support. Crashing a gatecamp solo is - for the most part - not a good idea.

That said, you will always have one major advantage over a gatecamp: you know their numbers, shiptypes, and where they are going to be before you ever (hopefully) engage. This give you ample time to assemble friends and ships to form an effective counter, and you know exactly what you are getting into before you jump in. Your gatecamping opponents will not have such a luxury, they are simply after whatever runs through their nets and will not expect an organized counter-ambush.

------------------------------------------------- Simple Steps to Complex Problems
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-27 16:01:56 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Define what you mean by 'crashing' for starters.


I'd like to make them asplode. :)
At this point in my training I don't really expect to survive the encounter, but I'd like to at least survive long enough to learn something from it and hopefully do some damage to the campers.
I realize if there are Loki's and Canes my chances are slim to none, but I'm betting that the site I have in mind is being camped but some less impressive ships. The location has little traffic and the gate is not often camped, but when it is I think it would be fun to evict them.

Since I don't plan to run should I stick with a frigate and make use of its speed or should I go with a destroyer and hope I can do enough damage to take some of them out?


battle badger all the way. point the guy who has the smallest tank and wait for the gate guns to fry him.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#10 - 2012-06-28 16:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Fyretracker
while its not crashing the camp, I have found low sec shopping to be rather successful using a Crane with nanos, an agility rig and a warp speed rig. gets into warp like a shuttle and I dunno if it even shows up on the overview from gate cloak to covert ops cloak.


If you want to bust it, just remember to play dirty... they are so you should to. by all means bring ECM along with your tacklers and gank ships.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
eddie valvetino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-06-28 17:18:37 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Define what you mean by 'crashing' for starters.


I'd like to make them asplode. :)
At this point in my training I don't really expect to survive the encounter, but I'd like to at least survive long enough to learn something from it and hopefully do some damage to the campers.
I realize if there are Loki's and Canes my chances are slim to none, but I'm betting that the site I have in mind is being camped but some less impressive ships. The location has little traffic and the gate is not often camped, but when it is I think it would be fun to evict them.

Since I don't plan to run should I stick with a frigate and make use of its speed or should I go with a destroyer and hope I can do enough damage to take some of them out?


good luck with that, come to Tama

plenty of practice to be had there
Lilith Desora
Bosozoku Buddies
#12 - 2012-06-28 18:03:03 UTC
As someone who solo/smallgang camps a lot of gates in T1 dessies, cruisers and bcs, I can tell you that for a 2-4 person camp, assuming you aren't red, all it takes to kill someone is to let them aggress you, point them and survive.
There are many nuanced approaches to baiting smaller (ship and number) gate camps, but primarily you need something fast.

I've gotten dozens of intie and slicer kills by getting that alpha shot before they can move, but if you can maximize transversal, all you need to do is point and preferably web them long enough for the gate guns to kill them.

As for how to bait them,

Assume a dessie can 2-volley any frig (barring some creative tank fitting) and any BC would have a good chance of one-volleying, assuming arty/rail/beam fits.
If you're feeling ambitious you could try to eat that first volley and then QUICKLY gain transversal.

Another idea might be to set your speed to ~50% and slowboat back to the gate after you come through.
If they are smart they will check your velocity and transversal and assume you have an AB or no prop.
The SECOND they point you or aggress you in any way, jam on your MWD and start orbiting.

Of course you will have to worry about blasters/ACs/light missiles/drones, but with the aforementioned tank, decent speed and drones, you would definitely survive long enough to outlast any aggressing dessie, possibly a cruiser or (long shot) a BC. The only constraint would be the number of warm bodies, but anything in excess of 3 people you're pretty much ******.

Give it a go!
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#13 - 2012-06-28 19:20:38 UTC
As a pro camper, usually they will have an interdictor, a decloaker and instalocker. So your best bet is to reapproach gate unagressed and jump back. Sometimes if you have a really fast ship you can get out of bubble enough to get killed but your pod can get out. You may also try a cloaky but if decloaker is good, you are done.