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Nullsec Local Delay
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Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-25 22:14:14 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Well lets see some ideas on that then, instead of "Just remove Local".

I do suspect though, that dscan improvements will be such, that we will end up having "Local" anyway, just under a different name. And what a waste of Dev time and money that'll end up being Ugh

Time will tell.

Most of CCP's comments about removing local seem to roughly follow the pattern of 'we could do it it if we completely reworked the way the other tools like d-scan worked so that it more or less duplicated the intel functions of local anyway'. Seems like a lot of effort to re-invent the wheel.

I saw no particular enthusiasm for it amongst the devs present at fanfest.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-06-25 22:16:16 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
I have a serious question. I see a lot of 'risk vs. reward is better in high sec' used a lot. What ratio should it be where living in null is worth the risk of no local in the game? Granted this is assuming other changes were to happen like fixing null industry and market to name a couple.


It would have to be better reward than wormholes for the average nullsec player. You would have no local, but you also have warp-to's most everything, cynos to drop caps/blops on you and "set destination" to your system for subcaps.

Wormholes would be safer, since there are limits on the ships that can come in, entrances can be closed, and you have to probe down anyone.

In order to balance it all out, nullsec would have to get many of those same features that wormholes have. Which just leads me to ask; Why reinvent the wheel when there are already some 5000 wormhole systems. And if wormhole mechanics were so popular, CCP could just add more wormhole systems.


Go gank ratters in wormholes already. You'll make more isk stealing their loot any way.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-06-25 23:06:06 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


So go ahead an remove local. I, and many others, will go make isk somewhere else, and if you guys find anyone in nullsec, they'll be in a big fleet and you can move on to crying on the forums about how unfair "blobs" are, and start scheming to nerf those.



Big surprise a Goon will only fly unless he is in a blob. So what you are saying is nothing will change. There are plenty of us out there that solo/small gang pvp, not having local wouldn't stop us. We already get blobed, and we already deal with it once the blob gets on grid. There is also a large chunk of us that know how to make isk in hostile territory, removing local isn't going to scare us off either. We got this awesome D-scan and intel channels. It sounds to me living behind the safety of your massive NAP-fest empire is making you soft, very very soft.
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-06-25 23:12:00 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned.

But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?

Nah, all hi sec miners have to do is fit tanks instead of expanded cargoholds and MLUs.
Only highsec miners feel entitled to failfit their ships

hth


And only goons feel entitled to abuse and destroy FW LP and then keep assets and not be banned. Figures.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#65 - 2012-06-25 23:14:03 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
I have a serious question. I see a lot of 'risk vs. reward is better in high sec' used a lot. What ratio should it be where living in null is worth the risk of no local in the game? Granted this is assuming other changes were to happen like fixing null industry and market to name a couple.


It would have to be better reward than wormholes for the average nullsec player. You would have no local, but you also have warp-to's most everything, cynos to drop caps/blops on you and "set destination" to your system for subcaps.

Wormholes would be safer, since there are limits on the ships that can come in, entrances can be closed, and you have to probe down anyone.

In order to balance it all out, nullsec would have to get many of those same features that wormholes have. Which just leads me to ask; Why reinvent the wheel when there are already some 5000 wormhole systems. And if wormhole mechanics were so popular, CCP could just add more wormhole systems.


Go gank ratters in wormholes already. You'll make more isk stealing their loot any way.


You sound like you want it to be safe, man do what you goons tell the miners to do, A L I G N and S C A N Idea

Whats good for the goose is not good for the gander?

Next you will need CONCORD protection Lol

I'm an American, English is my second language...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-25 23:34:02 UTC
So are you posting with alts, Bootleg Jack and Lucy Ferrr, or do you actually have no experience with nullsec as it would seem from killboard stats?

Post with your main please.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-06-25 23:37:59 UTC
Everyone take note of the last few replies.

The truth comes out.

They are jealous of our success and are making "suggestions to improve nullsec" that are really just thinly veiled attempts to hobble us.

Take your jealousy and GTFO.


Every "remove local" thread is the same crap. Break the knees of nullsec because of jealously, or hand them soft targets on a platter because they can't be bothered to hunt their prey with the current mechanics.

Oh, and completely ignore that fact that their are 5000 systems with exactly what they are looking for, and with better rewards.

But these guys don't really want to hunt ratters with probes. If they did, they would be doing it in a wormhole right now instead of shitposting. They just want to break nullsec mechanics out of petty spite, and hope CCP will hurt nullsec, because they themselves can't.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-06-25 23:52:00 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Everyone take note of the last few replies.

The truth comes out.

They are jealous of our success and are making "suggestions to improve nullsec" that are really just thinly veiled attempts to hobble us.

Take your jealousy and GTFO.


Every "remove local" thread is the same crap. Break the knees of nullsec because of jealously, or hand them soft targets on a platter because they can't be bothered to hunt their prey with the current mechanics.

Oh, and completely ignore that fact that their are 5000 systems with exactly what they are looking for, and with better rewards.

But these guys don't really want to hunt ratters with probes. If they did, they would be doing it in a wormhole right now instead of shitposting. They just want to break nullsec mechanics out of petty spite, and hope CCP will hurt nullsec, because they themselves can't.

Metagaming at its best. CCP has the best tools, even more powerful than the supercaps you can't get in highsec.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-06-26 03:04:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So are you posting with alts, Bootleg Jack and Lucy Ferrr, or do you actually have no experience with nullsec as it would seem from killboard stats?

Post with your main please.


If you are so dense that you don't understand why we post with alts, I don't think I can explain it to you. It's easy to call for people to post with their mains when you are a pet. You have 20% of the subs in Eve blue. My corp is just a smallish little entity out in NPC Nul. I don't want my views and opinions to have a negative impact on my corp or alliance. Especially if they are not necessarily views and opinions shared by the corp. That is why I post with an empty character.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-06-26 03:20:09 UTC
It's easy to call someone a pet when you're hiding behind a forum alt. This attempt at an insult seems more like a lack of original thought on your part than anything, and it certainly doesn't gain you any credibility if you actually believe it's true.

To be quite honest with you, badposting doesn't make you any more of an attractive target whether you were to post with your main or not. We have bigger fish to fry.

You may also be surprised to learn that my corporation has policies against posting on these forums in manners that paints the corporation and alliance in a negative light. I find that posting intelligently helps with this immensely while still holding myself accountable for my words and actions.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-06-26 04:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: David Cedarbridge
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Ephenos wrote:
TLDR: People suggest it, people get laughed at by smart people, but continue to protest it would be a good idea, ccp ignores them.

Just go read any of the threadnaughts on this subject.

But no, it's a terrible idea, 0.0 players are often pvp players. but 0.0 players who live only in 0.0 still need a way to be able to make isk, and delayed local+ cloaks = impossible to rat or mine or plex with any degree of safety.

Who exactly will you be looking to shoot if nobody is ratting or mining in null cause double the isk income of highsec isn't worth always staying aligned and spamming dscan ?



Sounds like someone needs to HTFU. Also just for the record CCP has said local is NOT working as intended, it was never meant to be an infallible intel tool.

The OP is right, and it doesn't matter if it is not an original idea, it's still a great idea. If you can't run missions or Plex unless you are in 100% safety, well Eve is probably not the game for you. Eve shouldn't be so safe, especially in nul-sec, but it is. It is impossible to die PvE'ing in Nul unless you are just dumb or very AFK.

Also you do know missions and most Plexs have gates. So you can watch your D-scan and see if enemy probes go out, in which case you dock. You sir just sound bad at Eve.


Want to guess how I know you've never been to real nullsec?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#72 - 2012-06-26 04:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
I've done both nul and w-space. I felt delayed local was a vast improvement over immediate mode. I improved my pvp abilities more in 2 months of w-space experience than in 2 years of nulsec.

It seems to me that the only uses for local chat are intel, spamming contracts, and smack talking. Otherwise, most actual conversation takes place in corp, alliance, fleet, or external comms. Since CCP has stated that local was intended as a way for locals to communicate, and it is not being used for that, perhaps it really is time to consider changing it.

Immediate mode local greatly diminishes the value of covert ops as a combat role. Currently, they are primarily used for afk cloaking and ganking inattentive ratters and industrials simply because everyone instantly knows the pilot is there. Bots and local residents enjoy perfect intel on every pilot in system, and can employ some very accurate and useful intel tools. Immediate mode local, rather than helping players, is actually a hindrance to their survival training. It encourages both parties to be lazy.

Changing immediate mode to delayed would make them get better. Nulsec is not hisec or even losec, nor should it provide the same benefits. The only added risk in nulsec is the lack of consequences for shooting another player, and no GCC.

I feel that the normal state of nulsec should be delayed local. In sov space, sov holders should have the ability to upgrade their space for immediate mode through a POS mod, similar to cyno jammers. IHUBs suck, imo.

Worried about getting hotdropped because you didn't know that cloaky was there? Its called a Cynosural Jammer. Install one. Want better intel? Install the mod, should CCP ever make one. Fly in a fleet. Can't find targets for your roam? Learn to scout. Fly around the system and use your dscan.

People always crying for CCP to make their game experience easier. I have a better idea. Learn to :effort:. Your gaming experience will be far more rewarding.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Hrothgar Nilsson
#73 - 2012-06-26 05:07:09 UTC
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2012-06-26 05:18:07 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

Huh, co-ordinated logoff traps? What are you trying to trap that would need 40 people?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hrothgar Nilsson
#75 - 2012-06-26 05:28:43 UTC
Quote:
What are you trying to trap that would need 40 people?

I'm not a member of Razor. Ask them?

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#76 - 2012-06-26 05:31:27 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

Huh, co-ordinated logoff traps? What are you trying to trap that would need 40 people?


the guy solo repping his POCO with a carrier
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-06-26 13:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

We don't use exploits. The issue reported by the Str8nge Brew member in question is the same local chat issue reported by many other people in the past few days. We seem to have benefited from it at the expense of this unfortunate pilot (who enjoys farming anoms with 6 carriers at a time), but by no means was it done deliberately or knowingly.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mons Pubis Giganticus
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-06-26 20:06:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

We don't use exploits. The issue reported by the Str8nge Brew member in question is the same local chat issue reported by many other people in the past few days. We seem to have benefited from it at the expense of this unfortunate pilot (who enjoys farming anoms with 6 carriers at a time), but by no means was it done deliberately or knowingly.

guffaw
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-06-26 21:45:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?

Yes, it's called fly 40 people into a system, log off, then have them all log back in a few hours simultaneously.

Most of the people who do that won't appear in local. I heard Razor used that trick on Str8nge Brew recently.

We don't use exploits. The issue reported by the Str8nge Brew member in question is the same local chat issue reported by many other people in the past few days. We seem to have benefited from it at the expense of this unfortunate pilot (who enjoys farming anoms with 6 carriers at a time), but by no means was it done deliberately or knowingly.

:popcorn:
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#80 - 2012-06-26 22:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bootleg Jack
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So are you posting with alts, Bootleg Jack and Lucy Ferrr, or do you actually have no experience with nullsec as it would seem from killboard stats?

Post with your main please.


Nope all you get is an alt, the Forums and EvE are two different games Big smile

I'm an American, English is my second language...