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What about Hybrids now?

Author
Coffeus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-06-25 23:33:22 UTC
Hey!
Didn't play for some time, just came back, need some help.
What about Hybrid weapons and their changes?
Are they viable now?

To be more specific is it still like that:
PvE: Proj > Missiles > Lasers > Hybrids
PvP: Proj > Lasers > Missiles > Hybrids

Or there was some change?
I'm not a EFT warrior because things in-game work different. Would like to hear out your opinions.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#2 - 2012-06-26 00:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Whelp! If we're just looking @ weapon systems and thier ammuntion alone. I'd say:

Blaster > Pulse Laser > Autocannon > Missile Launcher

Since you claim to know otherwise. I'm sure you know it's not as simple as your simple question. Even before the changes. The dynamic aspects of the game makes coming to firm conclusions difficult.

How a engagement would go down between ships using these weapon systems would include alot of other contributing factors.

Point i'm making is your question is silly.

You might as well start posting specific setups and scenarios; throwing in a serious number of assumptions and qualifiers empirically. It's simple to partake in player versus player. Having to discribe the multiple situation you could encounter and their outcomes is difficult.


With that all said. A Drake with a optimum setup is still, all around, the most optimum ship available to players currently.


See what I did there? = )

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-06-26 00:54:12 UTC
Coffeus wrote:
Hey!
Didn't play for some time, just came back, need some help.
What about Hybrid weapons and their changes?
Are they viable now?

To be more specific is it still like that:
PvE: Proj > Missiles > Lasers > Hybrids
PvP: Proj > Lasers > Missiles > Hybrids

Or there was some change?
I'm not a EFT warrior because things in-game work different. Would like to hear out your opinions.


It depend on what kind of PvE and PvP you are doing.

For PvE:
If you're running missions, it's something like Missiles (Tengu) > Proj (Mach/Vargur) > Lasers (NM) > Drones (Ishtar/Gila/Domi) >>>> Hybrids

If you're running incursions, it's something like Lasers (Zealot/NM/Bhaal) > Hybrid (Vindi) > Proj (Mach/Loki) >>>> Missiles >>>> Drones

PvP is a bit more complicated, but generally speaking, the fewer numbers, the better blasters look.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2012-06-26 00:54:53 UTC
Hybrids have their place not much matches them for close range brawling and the ships with 10% falloff per level bonus with hybrids are quite potent (and generally underestimated) when coupled with a couple of tracking enhancers.
Postitute
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-06-26 01:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Postitute
Hybrids are better. They're very viable - need to travel with some good tackle/webbing support and you'll deliver some crushing DPS.

Requires more rigorous consideration of fleet/gang composition and tactics compared to some of the other weapons, but can be very rewarding.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-06-26 01:07:59 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Hybrids have their place not much matches them for close range brawling and the ships with 10% falloff per level bonus with hybrids are quite potent (and generally underestimated) when coupled with a couple of tracking enhancers.


Is that why Hybrid Ferox pwns AC Ferox?Roll

Yeah, hybrids still suck. Winmatar still wins.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2012-06-26 06:26:44 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Hybrids have their place not much matches them for close range brawling and the ships with 10% falloff per level bonus with hybrids are quite potent (and generally underestimated) when coupled with a couple of tracking enhancers.


Is that why Hybrid Ferox pwns AC Ferox?Roll

Yeah, hybrids still suck. Winmatar still wins.


Blasterox can hit over 700 DPS while tanking 1300 sans booster alts for 47 seconds. Put Null in the guns and you'll push 550ish DPS out to 9km with another 9km of falloff. 40k EHPwith the active tank and you get a web to go along with it too. Winmatar is slowly fading.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#8 - 2012-06-26 06:36:02 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Hybrids have their place not much matches them for close range brawling and the ships with 10% falloff per level bonus with hybrids are quite potent (and generally underestimated) when coupled with a couple of tracking enhancers.


Is that why Hybrid Ferox pwns AC Ferox?Roll

Yeah, hybrids still suck. Winmatar still wins.


According to EFT, the Blasterox does more damage between 5450m and 18500m, so if you can stay in that range, the blaster ship will win, but if you're at extreme close range, or outside of tackle range, the Autorox will win.

I personally use a Laserox because of the Rule of Cool.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-06-26 09:50:36 UTC
Depends on the ship and the situation.

For PVE in Gallente Space Both the Kronos (Rails) and the Proteus (Blasters) are good missions runners.

They can also be configured to undertake most Nullsec PVE activities where there are Serpentis, Guristas rats.

PVP wise things are much improved, Deimos is still recovering from its bad rep but is a much improved ship, shield gank Vexors, Thorax’s and Brutix can also put out a lot of DPS with moderate tanks. Talos is great armor or shield.

The frigate line Hybrids are perhaps top now, Merlin and Incurses are now perhaps the top T1 frigates both able to fit small neutrons easily.
Coffeus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-06-26 10:44:20 UTC
Thanks a lot for the info!

Guess I'll do some missions for the starters, to get used to the game.

Strangely my Kronos has around ~730 DPS with rails. I was hoping for more :D
Well at least compared to my tach Nightmare ~900 DPS it still looks so-so ;/
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-26 11:00:55 UTC
That seems low. You should reach 900 at least if not 1000 with drones.
Coffeus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-26 11:35:12 UTC
Yes, it's without drones, just weapons on both ships.

I'm just comparing the ships and trying to find the best way.
Predator989
Kurupt.
Sedition.
#13 - 2012-06-26 12:30:37 UTC
Coffeus wrote:
Thanks a lot for the info!

Guess I'll do some missions for the starters, to get used to the game.

Strangely my Kronos has around ~730 DPS with rails. I was hoping for more :D
Well at least compared to my tach Nightmare ~900 DPS it still looks so-so ;/


Get both 5% the Large hybrid damage implant AND the all turret damage implant + tech 2 damage rig on the kronos. Oh, and 4 faction damage mods.....with barely gets it to 980 dps. While a Mach for example...tops it in everything besides lock range.

If you really wanna fly gallente then get one, but if you want the most out of your isk....then crosstrain to a different race for PVE :<. Either that or fly the dominix and fit it full gank like a boss

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-26 13:06:20 UTC
Coffeus wrote:
Yes, it's without drones, just weapons on both ships.

I'm just comparing the ships and trying to find the best way.


Large Hybrids got better but balance is not finished so ship bonus etc are still somewhat "awkward", next balance is about cruiser (and their T2 options I guess) and battle cruiser (and their T2 options too) and this is for next winter so battleships is not for tomorrow.

If you really want to smash missions or anoms/lvl 4's just cross train to get Machariel and faction/DED fit it. I've never seen anything else running Sanctums that fast with no help of any kind (less than 15min)

brb

Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-06-26 14:39:38 UTC
Predator989 wrote:
Coffeus wrote:
Thanks a lot for the info!

Guess I'll do some missions for the starters, to get used to the game.

Strangely my Kronos has around ~730 DPS with rails. I was hoping for more :D
Well at least compared to my tach Nightmare ~900 DPS it still looks so-so ;/


Get both 5% the Large hybrid damage implant AND the all turret damage implant + tech 2 damage rig on the kronos. Oh, and 4 faction damage mods.....with barely gets it to 980 dps. While a Mach for example...tops it in everything besides lock range.

If you really wanna fly gallente then get one, but if you want the most out of your isk....then crosstrain to a different race for PVE :<. Either that or fly the dominix and fit it full gank like a boss



Strictly speaking, the Mach isn't really a fair comparison to a Kronos, the Projectile equivalent would be the Vargur. Not that it changes the result all that much.

That said, if you like the hybrid boats you don't have to feel nearly so bad for flying them these days, even if you're trying to mission for ISK- you can't get the sheer firepower (rails) and ease-of-use (blasters) as with the missile and projectile boats, but you can actually manage realistic fits (espeically re: ferox and rokh) and thus "acceptable" damage output regardless of if you're looking for PvP or PvE (though any issues that weren't specifically down to the weapons are still there, like the general difficulty a lot of hybrid boats face when trying to maintain a good engagement range). It won't be "the most out of your isk," but it isn't like you're taking a 50% pay cut assuming PvE just because of the guns.

Medium rails are still pants, though.
Noisrevbus
#16 - 2012-06-26 14:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Coffeus wrote:
Hey!
Didn't play for some time, just came back, need some help.
What about Hybrid weapons and their changes?
Are they viable now?

PvP is a bit more complicated, but generally speaking, the fewer numbers, the better blasters look.


If you want a rough overview, i'd say that the main difference is that Caldari got an upswing with the Rokh becomming a viable mid-long range BS (that slight DPS push was just the nudge it needed; a higher profileration of other LR ships made it even more appealing) and the Naga comparing better to his brethren than Eagles (and Cerbs) did in the past.

Gallente got what is likely the best Tier 3 BC (though the class is reasonably well balanced within itself) in the Talos, capable of both Rail and Blaster setups. Moros is once again king of Dreads, Dreads are better overall and Vindis more appealing as a result. On the downside various Blaster-rush on smaller ships got directly countered by these changes, and i'd say negative overall for the common Gallente shipline that now have to contend with more, and faster, snipers.

Wether it changed some order of racial balance i'm not sure, but it did make attempts at any such orders among larger fleets less appearant, which is a good thing for them.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-06-26 15:37:26 UTC
Medium rails are ****. Other than that hybrids are pretty good right now.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-26 16:57:38 UTC
Mach is a great mission ship, but dont discount the Kronos so fast.

If anything the Mach lacks good kinetic ammo type and a well fit Kronos can do more DPS than most standard Mach fits past the 40km mark.

Different ships for different targets.

Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#19 - 2012-06-26 21:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
I wonder what can you do on a Rail Kronos when a smaller targets get within 3-4km range? Like elite cruisers.

There are missions when you warp into the pocket with rats that close to you.

Whatever.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-26 21:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Funky Lazers wrote:
I wonder what can you do on a Rail Kronos when a smaller targets get within 3-4km range? Like elite cruisers.

There are missions when you warp into the pocket with rats that close to you.



T2 Rail ammo : +25% tracking, Optimal range reduced 75%

So if you don't fit a web on that one seems silly yet, then you have drones, then +25% tracking T2 ammo 'kaboum meh dps!!" on guns that now track quite good and after this manage to get pined, stop flying space ships Lol

brb

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