These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Making nullsec vibrant again

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rek Esket
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1101 - 2012-06-26 01:20:00 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
CCPWaffe, indeed. It was an inside job from the very start.


Planned alongside our good friend T20 at the first BoB barbecue. We've been controlling the game this whole time.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1102 - 2012-06-26 01:22:10 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.

So what you're saying is that fighting in nullsec and making money, manufacturing and shipping in hisec is exactly how the game was designed to be played.

... maybe it is.

I guess I should ship my Raven Navy Issue to highsec and start looking at L4 soloing fits.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1103 - 2012-06-26 01:29:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
If CCP agreed with your idea of making the game better then it would have been done already a long time ago.
9 years is a long time for null space to not be vibrant.

So uh, the fact that CCP h as been known to forget to make old features not suck the last ... uh, let's say few years, in search for the jesus feature, means that all the old content is golden and working absolutely perfectly? That's your line of reasoning?


I am thinking you are barking up a tree that is never going to change. So this entire thread does not matter one bit.

In other words, your reasoning is that the old content CCP made years and years ago is perfect and there's nothing to do to update it to today's population levels.


I really do not see how population has anything to do with this. The problem with mechanics is and has been the same for many years and yet has never changed. Why is it going to change now? What makes you so different than players 5 years ago?
They could not effect change so why are you going to be able to?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1104 - 2012-06-26 01:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.


I fear you are not paying attention to what is being said. There is NOTHING that the GSF or ANY Alliance can do about POS and Station MECHANICS. They can not make their industrial complex competitve with High Sec. This is not about their will. If the means to make this happen were available in the game they would do it. As it stands those mechanics do NOT exist and no amount of repetition of the same claims will change that. CCP has to change the mechanics of industry in Null. Otherwise it just involves carting raw materials to Jita (and having no say in the prices) and then purchasing finished goods (and having no say in the prices) and carting them back to Null.

This issue is likely also the reason behind the "emergent content". In order to get a better price for the raw materials they are bringing in from Null Sec there needs to be a drop in supply. Sponsoring the extermination of miners has a direct impact on this. Burn Jita was likely designed to have a similar impact. If Null Sec Industry were "fixed" there would be less actual fiscal need for this and they would just do it for fun at that point or to balance out the markets for a specific reason.

E: Spelling. English is my first language but I am American and therefore suck at it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1105 - 2012-06-26 01:32:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.

So what you're saying is that fighting in nullsec and making money, manufacturing and shipping in hisec is exactly how the game was designed to be played.

... maybe it is.

I guess I should ship my Raven Navy Issue to highsec and start looking at L4 soloing fits.

Generally people make of it what they will, if you work on an External Locus of control, the game mechanics are the controling factor, internal you make the difference. I personally see no harm in an even distribution of missions with both lvl 4 and 5 types of missions available in null, level 5 missions tempt players into low buts its always with a risk and I suspect that it would be the same risk involved for null. It's a matter that doesn't affect me though as I don't run missions so I can not really comment on missions.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2012-06-26 01:36:18 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
I really do not see how population has anything to do with this.

Guys I've no idea why populations have any effect on capacity problems, so I'm going to post about how nullsec was fine 5 years ago and pretend that absolutely nothing has changed.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1107 - 2012-06-26 01:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I guess I should ship my Raven Navy Issue to highsec and start looking at L4 soloing fits.

Generally people make of it what they will, if you work on an External Locus of control, the game mechanics are the controling factor, internal you make the difference. I personally see no harm in an even distribution of missions with both lvl 4 and 5 types of missions available in null, level 5 missions tempt players into low buts its always with a risk and I suspect that it would be the same risk involved for null. It's a matter that doesn't affect me though as I don't run missions so I can not really comment on missions.

Honestly, it would be hilarious if there were goonswarm agents that gave quests. They'd be "working for" whatever corp owns the station they're in. And their faction would of course be the alliance holding sov.

Go to the ass-end of Deklein and deliver these 100,000 units of "rifter parts". Then pick up some "1400mm barrel measurements" and return them to me.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1108 - 2012-06-26 01:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
I really do not see how population has anything to do with this. The problem with mechanics is and has been the same for many years and yet has never changed. Why is it going to change now? What makes you so different than players 5 years ago? They could not effect change so why are you going to be able to?

Well - I hate to say this, but Incarna *may* have had something to do with it... CCP left things to wither on the vine. Just because players "made do" with what they had... doesn't mean it can't be better...

Last year CCP committed to "making better" all those "thousand papercuts". That is why a lot of people see this as maybe the time to go for the gold... vOv


or it could just be more :rabble:!

Big smile
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Honestly, it would be hilarious if there were goonswarm agents that gave quests.

Screw that, it would be all "trolololo" and "memes"...

,,l,,

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1109 - 2012-06-26 01:45:30 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.


I fear you are not paying attention to what is being said. There is NOTHING that the GSF or ANY Alliance can do about POS and Station MECHANICS. They can not make their industrial complex competitve with High Sec. This is not about their will. If the means to make this happen were available in the game they would do it. As it stands those mechanics do NOT exist and no amount of repetition of the same claims will change that. CCP has to change the mechanics of industry in Null. Otherwise it just involves carting raw materials to Jita (and having no say in the prices) and then purchasing finished goods (and having no say in the prices) and carting them back to Null.

This issue is likely also the reason behind the "emergent content". In order to get a better price for the raw materials they are bringing in from Null Sec there needs to be a drop in supply. Sponsoring the extermination of miners has a direct impact on this. Burn Jita was likely designed to have a similar impact. If Null Sec Industry were "fixed" there would be less actual fiscal need for this and they would just do it for fun at that point or to balance out the markets for a specific reason.

E: Spelling. English is my first language but I am American and therefore suck at it.


Interesting insight, why not just take over a section of low or NPC Null with Stations and facilities, are the logistics really that hard? Said aquasitions would undoubtably provide plenty of interesting game content, maybe to much perhaps.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1110 - 2012-06-26 01:48:05 UTC
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Interesting insight, why not just take over a section of low or NPC Null with Stations and facilities, are the logistics really that hard? Said aquasitions would undoubtably provide plenty of interesting game content, maybe to much perhaps.

Logistics from where?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#1111 - 2012-06-26 01:48:56 UTC
This is kind of a random thought, but how about a nerf to refinery, research, and factory efficiency based on system sec level, being applied to NPC lines as well, with a cooresponding buff to actually make null much better and high only slightly worse than now? Or reduce the number of lines slightly and then buff them as you move out (although that feels more artificial than the other suggestion; you could chalk that one up to CONCORD tax...)

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1112 - 2012-06-26 01:59:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Interesting insight, why not just take over a section of low or NPC Null with Stations and facilities, are the logistics really that hard? Said aquasitions would undoubtably provide plenty of interesting game content, maybe to much perhaps.

Logistics from where?

Logistics of control, the policing of the Low sec or NPC null areas to provide access and use of facilities for alliance members, Alliance ships would basically act as a Militia and take on the role of Concord. Considering it is an area where the entry barriers are low is the acquisition and control of low sec and NPC null that hard?
strikefour
Purple Passion Procurements
#1113 - 2012-06-26 02:09:10 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
strikefour wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
An assertion made by many but backed up by zero evidence. I on the other hand propose removing something that actually has an effect of forcing people out of game (NPC corps) according to CCP.


My accounts are cancelled. My main has already expired. This one will expire soon. There is your evidence.

If hisec were not such a PITA and/or null more accessible, I might have been more willing to put up with the crappy bugs that I have been tolerating for 6+ years. I swear to god I love playing Eve but it is getting way too tedious. Hisec is almost as bad as nullsec now. Good bye. Enjoy shooting NPCs since that will be all that will be left.

So the recent nerfs to highsec (zero) made it too 'tedious' to market PVP and now you're leaving, and that's your evidence that nerfing highsec will lead to less subs?


We should do this part of the discussion offline if you are actually interested in understanding.

I suppose this is a bit too subtle for you to get. Bugs drive me away. Interesting content pulls me in. That ratio has changed enough to where the fun-factor is not there for me any more.

I have lots of ISK. Lots of resources. Lots of ships (I own almost every faction ship that exists). Lots of skills. I can do _anything_ ... but I won't. I am leaving. The ratio has been crossed. As a matter of fact, this will be my last post forever unless I decide to resub again. Even then, it may be my last post because out of all the time I have been playing, I have never posted before.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1114 - 2012-06-26 02:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Interesting insight, why not just take over a section of low or NPC Null with Stations and facilities, are the logistics really that hard? Said aquasitions would undoubtably provide plenty of interesting game content, maybe to much perhaps.

Logistics from where?

Logistics of control, the policing of the Low sec or NPC null areas to provide access and use of facilities for alliance members, Alliance ships would basically act as a Militia and take on the role of Concord. Considering it is an area where the entry barriers are low is the acquisition and control of low sec and NPC null that hard?


The facilities already exist. The facilities are shite compared to High Sec facilities. It is more cost effective to move raw materials to High Sec to be refined than to sit on a Station or POS where you can only refine one ore at a time and it is not instantaneous as it is in High Sec*


*being a High Sec res I have no first hand knowledge of this. Can I get a null sec res to confirm or refute this claim?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1115 - 2012-06-26 02:13:06 UTC
strikefour wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
strikefour wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
An assertion made by many but backed up by zero evidence. I on the other hand propose removing something that actually has an effect of forcing people out of game (NPC corps) according to CCP.


My accounts are cancelled. My main has already expired. This one will expire soon. There is your evidence.

If hisec were not such a PITA and/or null more accessible, I might have been more willing to put up with the crappy bugs that I have been tolerating for 6+ years. I swear to god I love playing Eve but it is getting way too tedious. Hisec is almost as bad as nullsec now. Good bye. Enjoy shooting NPCs since that will be all that will be left.

So the recent nerfs to highsec (zero) made it too 'tedious' to market PVP and now you're leaving, and that's your evidence that nerfing highsec will lead to less subs?


We should do this part of the discussion offline if you are actually interested in understanding.

I suppose this is a bit too subtle for you to get. Bugs drive me away. Interesting content pulls me in. That ratio has changed enough to where the fun-factor is not there for me any more.

I have lots of ISK. Lots of resources. Lots of ships (I own almost every faction ship that exists). Lots of skills. I can do _anything_ ... but I won't. I am leaving. The ratio has been crossed. As a matter of fact, this will be my last post forever unless I decide to resub again. Even then, it may be my last post because out of all the time I have been playing, I have never posted before.


Take care of yourself. I certainly hope to see you again. I have found some insightful posting with your name on it.

o7

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#1116 - 2012-06-26 02:34:20 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Easy. Introduce Interdiction Nullifier module -> A lot more activity in majority of formerly dead systems, a lot less in entrenched ratting heavens.

lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right?
good plan bud


lowsec is a bit **** though, that is unless you enjoy gate camping or enjoy poping serpentis rats in velators and thoraxs, though I do agree with what you said just not entirely.

I think lowsec was a lot better with out warp to zero, lots would attack me for that but honestly all that needed to be done was remove bookmarks from grid surrounding a stargate. I've been a long time playing this game and what truely killed the fun was the introduction of warp to zero, then the series of speed nerfs that shortly followed.

The introduction of warp to zero made eve become so small, before its introduction a 30 jump route would have to be thoroughly planned as a corp move so that everyone made it from A to B in one piece, you would have to all fit a mwd and travel as a group with a scout like we do now but much slower and there was potential for hostile action at any point along the way. My first real pirate corp would not move for months and normally hang around the same few systems and we would kill the same people over and over again because everything was like small pockets or collections of players.

These days you can be on the other side of the universe fast and rather safely... Obviously eve as changed in such a way that reverting back to the way it was is never going to happen but I do hope that some day stargates are removed entirely and the whole universe becomes one seamless entity that you could fly from one end to the next given enough fuel and time and be intercepted along the way and pew pew and stuff Blink
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1117 - 2012-06-26 02:41:31 UTC
I still don't understand how giving null manufacturing slots and whatever for industry is going to pop the Jita nipple out of null's mouth. Yes, of course, they still need to be done, but I am just curious what the 'big' change will be? Jita is by far, the one stop shopping hot spot for all your needs. With current projection mechanics (being able to transverse the galaxy in minutes), why would anyone stop going to Jita? It is one huge hole in the ground that all the water flows to. There needs to be far more changes and some even huge, to fill that hole up to allow the opportunity for many different oasis markets to form across the galaxy.

Suggestions/ideas?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1118 - 2012-06-26 02:47:18 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
I still don't understand how giving null manufacturing slots and whatever for industry is going to pop the Jita nipple out of null's mouth. Yes, of course, they still need to be done, but I am just curious what the 'big' change will be? Jita is by far, the one stop shopping hot spot for all your needs. With current projection mechanics (being able to transverse the galaxy in minutes), why would anyone stop going to Jita? It is one huge hole in the ground that all the water flows to. There needs to be far more changes and some even huge, to fill that hole up to allow the opportunity for many different oasis markets to form across the galaxy.

Suggestions/ideas?


There is absolutely nothing preventing Null sec Alliances from creating market hubs of there own.... except...

In order to build goods you need refined minerals with the least amount of waste.
You also need manufacturing slots will the least amount of waste.

These facilities do not exist in Null Sec, again because of the game mechanics present in that domain.

So the only fiscally responsible course of action is to cart raw materials to high sec (Perimeter for example), refine (0 waste) and build (0 waste) and then either sell the finished goods or cart them back to Null Sec.

High sec should not be the only domain where industry is fiscally viable.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1119 - 2012-06-26 02:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marconus Orion wrote:
I still don't understand how giving null manufacturing slots and whatever for industry is going to pop the Jita nipple out of null's mouth. Yes, of course, they still need to be done, but I am just curious what the 'big' change will be? Jita is by far, the one stop shopping hot spot for all your needs. With current projection mechanics (being able to transverse the galaxy in minutes), why would anyone stop going to Jita? It is one huge hole in the ground that all the water flows to. There needs to be far more changes and some even huge, to fill that hole up to allow the opportunity for many different oasis markets to form across the galaxy.

Suggestions/ideas?
Remove NPC corps, make people wardeccable as individuals. Add a spool up timer to activating a cyno (this solves a lot of the current projection problems in 0.0 btw) and highsec wardec corps can start cargo scanning freighters and immediately start deccing the unescorted supply convoys.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1120 - 2012-06-26 02:54:12 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
lowsec is a bit **** though, that is unless you enjoy gate camping or enjoy poping serpentis rats in velators and thoraxs, though I do agree with what you said just not entirely.

You can do a bit more than that, but yeah, I know what you mean. I detest people who only know how to gate camp. Send a scout in each direction and sit in the system cloaked. Anything that resembles something that might actually get a shot off against the camp, and the gate camp scatters like roaches when you turn the lights on. A cowards game.
LittleTerror wrote:
I think lowsec was a lot better with out warp to zero, lots would attack me for that but honestly all that needed to be done was remove bookmarks from grid surrounding a stargate. I've been a long time playing this game and what truely killed the fun was the introduction of warp to zero, then the series of speed nerfs that shortly followed.

Having to go around and make bookmarks prior to living in an area was a tedious task and didn't add to game play at all. This of course is again, from my point of view.
LittleTerror wrote:
The introduction of warp to zero made eve become so small, before its introduction a 30 jump route would have to be thoroughly planned as a corp move so that everyone made it from A to B in one piece, you would have to all fit a mwd and travel as a group with a scout like we do now but much slower and there was potential for hostile action at any point along the way. My first real pirate corp would not move for months and normally hang around the same few systems and we would kill the same people over and over again because everything was like small pockets or collections of players.

Cynos and capital ships is what made the game feel small. Pirates raged against the warp to zero, but quickly found out that catching the same travelers was just as possible by doing it on the other side of the gate.
LittleTerror wrote:
These days you can be on the other side of the universe fast and rather safely... Obviously eve as changed in such a way that reverting back to the way it was is never going to happen but I do hope that some day stargates are removed entirely and the whole universe becomes one seamless entity that you could fly from one end to the next given enough fuel and time and be intercepted along the way and pew pew and stuff Blink

Maybe one day EVE will be able to find a way to get there. I am not sure how, if possible, but you can still keep dreaming of the day. Big smile