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I'd like to ask the entire eve comminitys help

Author
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-06-25 17:05:23 UTC
http://torrentfreak.com/tvshack-the-human-cost-of-extradition-a-mothers-story-110712/

http://www.change.org/petitions/ukhomeoffice-stop-the-extradition-of-richard-o-dwyer-to-the-usa-saverichard

normally I'd not bring RL issues into game like this, but this guy needs help, if this goes ahead it's going to set a very dangerous legal precedent, So i'd like to ask anyone and everyone in eve to please sign the petition and help stop this. I'd also be grateful to anyone who also re posts the petition on their fb, twitter etc, please for the love of god HELP!!!!!
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-06-25 17:28:46 UTC
Where are the lawyers? (I think Brits call them solicitors.)

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Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-06-25 17:37:33 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Where are the lawyers? (I think Brits call them solicitors.)

IN court, it's headed to the high court far as I know which is one of the last courts avail, after that maybe the supreme court in britain if not the european courts.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2012-06-25 18:15:26 UTC
http://torrentfreak.com/pirating-uk-student-to-be-extradited-to-the-us-120313/

A more recent article. Looks like his extradition was approved.

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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#5 - 2012-06-25 18:18:59 UTC
Don't worry guys, I got some friends on the inside. I'll smuggle some smokes in and they'll make sure he's protected from the pain train.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-06-25 18:27:01 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
http://torrentfreak.com/pirating-uk-student-to-be-extradited-to-the-us-120313/

A more recent article. Looks like his extradition was approved.


I linked the original article so people can read from there and follow things from the get go on the backstory as said this guy really does need help
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#7 - 2012-06-25 18:36:30 UTC
WOW... US can pretty much grab a foreign citizen in his own country, bring him, sentence him, jail him... I think US is overpowered and need to be nerfed / re-balanced.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

Trin Xi
#8 - 2012-06-25 19:04:01 UTC
His case should probably be referred to the EFF... They may represent him pro bono: https://www.eff.org/

There are others in the U.S. that would likely also take the case. Linking is not hosting.

Post with someone else's main™.

Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#9 - 2012-06-25 19:05:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Totalrx
Before anyone says this is BS - remember this:

Other countries can and do recognize US Copyright laws. (aka Berne & UCC conventions) The UK has the authority to approve this individual being tried and convicted in the US. It is the UK that is extraditing him to the US.

I hold some of my own copyrights and don't want people distributing my work just because they feel entitled to. Sorry, I worked my arse off on that material and nobody is entitled for free to it just because they feel they are.

That being said - he shouldn't be extradited. The UK can try and convict him of breaking copyright laws on UK soil and in their own courts. The UK & US are making this into a dog & pony show.
Cebraio
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-06-25 19:37:47 UTC
Totalrx wrote:

That being said - he shouldn't be extradited. The UK can try and convict him of breaking copyright laws on UK soil and in their own courts. The UK & US are making this into a dog & pony show.

That's the important part here. Are we all now supposed to be judged before US courts and held imprisoned in the US? I think not! They already went over the line with illegal abductions of muslim suspects (some of them innocent and release after years without ever seeing a judge). Now they are trying to grab the average citizen who did - or did not - minor crimes* OUTSIDE the US!

* It's not even clear that he actually did something illegal. He supposedly just shared links to other servers. Which was not illegal before and hopefully will never be. He's kind of in the same situation with Kim Schmitz, with the difference that KS is wealthy and has good lawyers.

Signed the petition.
Zleon Leigh
#11 - 2012-06-25 20:15:35 UTC
Why do you people think it should be okay for people to steal? Okay, how about helping others steal? He broke the law, he gets to defend himself in a court, and he can pay for his crimes if convicted. If he's not convicted I'm sure the US will be happy to export his ass back to the UK.

Stop with the thinking that there is a free lunch for everyone.

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Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-25 20:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
This is just wrong. No one should face extradition for such petty crimes. World Police strike again... fml

If this does go through this countries gone to ****. No balls any more.


Zleon Leigh wrote:
Why do you people think it should be okay for people to steal? Okay, how about helping others steal? He broke the law, he gets to defend himself in a court, and he can pay for his crimes if convicted. If he's not convicted I'm sure the US will be happy to export his ass back to the UK.

Stop with the thinking that there is a free lunch for everyone.


This isn't about whether the law was broken or not. A UK court dropped the charges on a UK citizen. That's as far as it should've gotten.

edit- In terms of a whether he broke a crime or not; I dont see any charges of the sort brought against google, yahoo or bing. Basically it's bullshit.

edit-edit- argh this makes me so ******* angry
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-25 20:21:05 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Why do you people think it should be okay for people to steal? Okay, how about helping others steal? He broke the law, he gets to defend himself in a court, and he can pay for his crimes if convicted. If he's not convicted I'm sure the US will be happy to export his ass back to the UK.

Stop with the thinking that there is a free lunch for everyone.


Dumbest thing I read all day. By that same logic US citizens should be brought to Saudi Arabia because they violated Saudi law.


Its is people like you, and those with similar opinions to you, that enable the kind of crap we see every day. And more of it. You should do some reflections on your views.
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#14 - 2012-06-25 20:21:35 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Totalrx wrote:

That being said - he shouldn't be extradited. The UK can try and convict him of breaking copyright laws on UK soil and in their own courts. The UK & US are making this into a dog & pony show.

That's the important part here. Are we all now supposed to be judged before US courts and held imprisoned in the US? I think not! They already went over the line with illegal abductions of muslim suspects (some of them innocent and release after years without ever seeing a judge). Now they are trying to grab the average citizen who did - or did not - minor crimes* OUTSIDE the US!

* It's not even clear that he actually did something illegal. He supposedly just shared links to other servers. Which was not illegal before and hopefully will never be. He's kind of in the same situation with Kim Schmitz, with the difference that KS is wealthy and has good lawyers.

Signed the petition.



Totalrx wrote:
It is the UK that is extraditing him to the US.


You missed that part.

The US is requesting he be extradited.

The UK is the country that is going to extradite this person.

The US can only extradite people in the US.

Wanna blame someone for him being extradited, blame the UK Big smile
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-25 20:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
The point being what he did was not and IS NOT a crime in Britain, if you read the article, his server was based in Britain, he lives in Britain and has NEVER BEEN OUTSIDE OF BRITAIN.
This comes down to jurisdiction based on server location, something which was settled a LONG TIME AGO with regards to online retailers and online sales, if you buy from a US retailer, you are bound by the state law where that retailer is based, if you buy from a British retailer, your bound by British statue retail law (IE sale of goods act, distance selling directive etc) if this goes through it sets a dangerous legal precedent and flips things on their heads, IE you buy from a US retailer, and are based in Britain, the retailer is bound by British statute retail law and if you buy from a British retailer and are based in the states the retailer is bound by US state law, even when its something like a digital download etc?

Regardless what is being done is just plain WRONG and to put it another way, if in the states you choose to invoke your first amendment right and post on a US server you own, "fcuk china you inbred c**ts, I hope your ruling party goes down in flames" (and please note i'm just using this as a example and don't mean the sentiment etc) and you have a domain with a Chinese based domain company, should china be able to extradite you to mainland china for breaking one of their laws based on censorship to do with things expressed about their government, even though you've NEVER left the states in your entire life, your server is based in the states and what you've done is legal where you've used your first amendment right?

Totalrx wrote:


The US is requesting he be extradited.

The UK is the country that is going to extradite this person.

The US can only extradite people in the US.

Wanna blame someone for him being extradited, blame the UK Big smile


actually blame corrupt corporate America for this, it went to court and they didn't get their way, so they bribe(sorry lobby) the US government into pulling this s**t, equally blame the US government for bending over for them, and then the British government for bending over for the US government.
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#16 - 2012-06-25 20:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Totalrx
I'm not going to argue the state of Corporate America or the US Gov't here. I've lost faith in both.

Britain acknowledges and upholds US Copyright laws. I'll say it again - look up the Berne & UCC conventions and you'll understand.

Someone in the US filed charges and the UK is willing to comply.

That doesn't mean that the US can extend its angry arm and try citizens in other countries at will. That other country has to agree to it.

Even though it is a case where US law was broken on British soil, it is Britain that is allowing this to happen. The British government could have very well sent a raspberry to the request and that would have been it. No, instead, British authorities are going to extradite a British citizen, who violated another country's laws on British soil, to that country to be tried and possibly convicted.

The British government is the entity that is letting this happen folks.

Countries search other countries for people on their wanted list all the time. Even if they find them, it's up to the other country to allow their extradition.

I don't agree with him being extradited, but everyone is jumping on the "Blame the US" bandwagon when it should be "Blame the US entertainment industry lawyers and blame Britain's government for giving him to the US government"

He did break copyright law that is recognized by Britain (again, Berne & UCC Conventions). He should be tried and convicted in Britain.
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-25 20:53:34 UTC
Totalrx wrote:
I'm not going to argue the state of Corporate America or the US Gov't here. I've lost faith in both.

Britain acknowledges and upholds US Copyright laws. I'll say it again - look up the Berne & UCC conventions and you'll understand.

Someone in the US filed charges and the UK is willing to comply.

That doesn't mean that the US can extend its angry arm and try citizens in other countries at will. That other country has to agree to it.

Even though it is a case where US law was broken on British soil, it is Britain that is allowing this to happen. The British government could have very well sent a raspberry to the request and that would have been it. No, instead, British authorities are going to extradite a British citizen, who violated another country's laws on British soil, to that country to be tried and possibly convicted.

The British government is the entity that is letting this happen folks.

Countries search other countries for people on their wanted list all the time. Even if they find them, it's up to the other country to allow their extradition.



and the petitions a way for trying to force the British government to actually do what they should have done in the first place and said NO, regardless bar the US and British governments all agree whats happening and besides saying "wtf??" are all agreeing what is happening is just plain WRONG.

and for people that have signed the petition, THANK YOU.
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#18 - 2012-06-25 20:55:13 UTC
Too bad cyber petitions do not hold any legal weight. They are too easy to sign more than once which will nullify any legal clout the real ones with real signatures have.
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-25 21:04:49 UTC
Totalrx wrote:
Too bad cyber petitions do not hold any legal weight. They are too easy to sign more than once which will nullify any legal clout the real ones with real signatures have.


funnily enough petitions were one of the reasons for sopa/pipa got withdraw....
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#20 - 2012-06-25 21:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Totalrx
I didn't say they weren't useful for awareness, I just stated that internet signed petitions have no legal standing Blink

The guy still needs to be prosecuted though. Just on British soil.

As a person who worked for over two decades in the entertainment industry, I don't support theft or unauthorized distribution of copyrighted works.
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