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Price of Retreivers
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Henk Fixer
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-06-24 08:05:26 UTC
So is the price of mining barges going to go up since the devblog came out about the changes coming?

Given theyre going to be the new highsec boat of choice to avoid ganks??

I know some of my friends are buying large amounts of them ready for the price increase
Dave stark
#2 - 2012-06-24 08:19:29 UTC
no, that'll be the procurer since that's the tanky mining ship after the changes. the retriever is the one with the big ore bay.
Takahiro Tanaka
Tanaka Stuff and Supplies
#3 - 2012-06-24 09:16:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Takahiro Tanaka
Some morons think they could earn some money with price speculations, so they bought up all market volume. The important fact they missed is, that these barges are T1 hulls, so they can be produced in almost unlimited quantities. The price will come down soon enough to normal levels as soon as the T1 producers realise the profit margins.
Dave stark
#4 - 2012-06-24 09:44:24 UTC
let's face it, every one who wants to mine, already does mine, and already has the relevant ships. people trying to buy up ships to change the prices, this far in advance, is a moron.
Frillo Teslar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-24 10:35:35 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
let's face it, every one who wants to mine, already does mine, and already has the relevant ships. people trying to buy up ships to change the prices, this far in advance, is a moron.


+1, many miners build their own barges even
Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
#6 - 2012-06-24 12:06:14 UTC
every mmo i've played there's always a good number of players that overreact to updates. the smallest change "breaks a class/ makes this or that OP/ i'm gonna have to reroll because of this update" it goes on and on. it makes me wonder if they feel that since they've read the devblog (posted on the launcher/login) that they have 'special information' and have some sort of advantage. wasn't this update not coming until WINTER? what, are they just gonna hoard all the barges until WINTER? Lol

i did see about 10 retrievers at one ice belt all stuck to the same jet can- all with lasers off in sinq laison. maybe this guy is buying them all? P
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#7 - 2012-06-24 15:25:54 UTC
the market can't sustain the 250% profit margin on procurers for long.
it's still intresting to see how long the proc-fest will go
Dave stark
#8 - 2012-06-24 18:46:33 UTC
procurers are, imo, the only ship with room to increase in price. procurers will become more popular for their tank vs their current use of.... what is a procurer's use?

whereas the difference between a retriever and a covetor will be tiny if the same math holds for the ret vs cov as holds for the mack vs hulk then those who own one won't purchase the other.
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#9 - 2012-06-25 11:18:38 UTC
Why would the procurer increase in price?
it's the only ship that's more than likely will get a price decrease of dozens of %s

you can't sell procurers for 5M when they cost 2M to make.
That's not how economies work.
demand might be high but supply is, in essence, endless.(in the long run)

long run is ofcourse not that long, all you need is someone to buy the BPO and then start making it. even with zero research it's an amazing bpo to produce. for now. until everyone else does the same.
Dave stark
#10 - 2012-06-25 11:44:57 UTC
Johnny Frecko wrote:
Why would the procurer increase in price?
it's the only ship that's more than likely will get a price decrease of dozens of %s

you can't sell procurers for 5M when they cost 2M to make.
That's not how economies work.
demand might be high but supply is, in essence, endless.(in the long run)

long run is ofcourse not that long, all you need is someone to buy the BPO and then start making it. even with zero research it's an amazing bpo to produce. for now. until everyone else does the same.


people will want a procurer so they don't get ganked. nobody currently owns a procurer because it's a waste of space, so they will have to purchase one.

people will want a retriever/covetor for the yield, they already own them so they won't need to buy one.

the point is nobody has a procurer, so they will buy them, demand goes up, price goes up, yada yada.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2012-06-25 11:51:30 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
let's face it, every one who wants to mine, already does mine, and already has the relevant ships. people trying to buy up ships to change the prices, this far in advance, is a moron.


It's distinctly possible that the release of the new ships may see some kind of special gankfest event, perhaps Hulkaggeddon 6. They may get blown up as fast as people can build them.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2012-06-25 11:53:25 UTC
Johnny Frecko wrote:

you can't sell procurers for 5M when they cost 2M to make.
That's not how economies work..


That's exactly how economies work. How much do you imagine the coffee we pay £5 a jar for costs at the plantation in Kenya?

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Dave stark
#13 - 2012-06-25 12:01:17 UTC
Callduron wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
let's face it, every one who wants to mine, already does mine, and already has the relevant ships. people trying to buy up ships to change the prices, this far in advance, is a moron.


It's distinctly possible that the release of the new ships may see some kind of special gankfest event, perhaps Hulkaggeddon 6. They may get blown up as fast as people can build them.


unless some one is offering huge bounties on them, it won't be worth it. they'll easily be able to tank that meta fit catalyst/thrasher until concord arrives. (at least, that's the intention from the devblog)
Dezolf
DAX Action Stance
#14 - 2012-06-25 12:24:36 UTC
Callduron wrote:
Johnny Frecko wrote:

you can't sell procurers for 5M when they cost 2M to make.
That's not how economies work..


That's exactly how economies work. How much do you imagine the coffee we pay £5 a jar for costs at the plantation in Kenya?


Difference is, it's not trivial to own a plantation, every average-joe out there cannot own a plantation, and they cannot start producing coffee as soon as they own one.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#15 - 2012-06-25 23:25:37 UTC
Takahiro Tanaka wrote:
Some morons think they could earn some money with price speculations, so they bought up all market volume. The important fact they missed is, that these barges are T1 hulls, so they can be produced in almost unlimited quantities. The price will come down soon enough to normal levels as soon as the T1 producers realise the profit margins.


Except CCP may change the minerals needed to build one as part of Tiericide. All the barges are about equal over all (One best at tank one best at cargo, one best at yield) so their mineral requirements will also be about equal. Result: New Procurers and Retrievers will be more expensive to make.

But it will at most be, what, a factor of 2? Im not too familiar with current mineral requirements of those ships...

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-06-26 03:00:30 UTC
Question, have we had it confirmed that the mineral costs of Barges and Exhumers will not be altered in light of these changes?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#17 - 2012-06-26 04:40:12 UTC
Some morons think they could earn some money with price speculations, so they bought up all market volume

Well im not a moron and yes, you can earn a lot of isks by speculation, you just need to be quick.

1. Read dev blog.
2. Buy shtload of stuff
3. Wait till some speculation morons set their overpriced buy orders.
4.????
5. profit

Main point is: wait till buy orders will skyrocket, then sell. If you buy stuff after the hype, and alredy overpriced , you will lose as prices will fall down quick. Especialy with t1 hulls manipulations.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Johnny Frecko
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#18 - 2012-06-26 06:39:47 UTC
My point was quite simple.

While demand goes up there's a HUGE stock of procurers right now at the hands of some private investors.

These will be used to cool down the price.
The gist of it is that procurer price can't rise from it's current stand long term - there's no chance an item having 250% margins survives the market.

End result is a much lower cost for the procurer than current ones. Exactly how much more than pre-dev-blog is unknown.
fact is we just don't know how much crappy ehp it has.

People don't fly mining barges w/max yield to avoid being ganked.
miners are risk-averse yet somehow are willing to accept a paper thin barge mining with 40 people in local.

So if EHP isn't a miner's concern and yield is you can expect seeing alot more covetors on the field(as the skill requirement drops significantly) - most people who mine casually skill up to the retriever and not over - that unlocks a huge portion of the market to covetors.

Also - the only reason procurers are selling right now(almost the only reason) is invention. Few people use procurers and even if they do, they just re-sell it when they're done using it.
Dave stark
#19 - 2012-06-26 07:40:24 UTC
Johnny Frecko wrote:
My point was quite simple.

While demand goes up there's a HUGE stock of procurers right now at the hands of some private investors.

These will be used to cool down the price.
The gist of it is that procurer price can't rise from it's current stand long term - there's no chance an item having 250% margins survives the market.

End result is a much lower cost for the procurer than current ones. Exactly how much more than pre-dev-blog is unknown.
fact is we just don't know how much crappy ehp it has.

People don't fly mining barges w/max yield to avoid being ganked.
miners are risk-averse yet somehow are willing to accept a paper thin barge mining with 40 people in local.

So if EHP isn't a miner's concern and yield is you can expect seeing alot more covetors on the field(as the skill requirement drops significantly) - most people who mine casually skill up to the retriever and not over - that unlocks a huge portion of the market to covetors.

Also - the only reason procurers are selling right now(almost the only reason) is invention. Few people use procurers and even if they do, they just re-sell it when they're done using it.


there may be a huge stockpile of procurers, but they won't sell until prices start rising. which it will as it's the only barge most people don't own [because it sucks like a hoover].

that change might not last long or be sustainable, but the change will be there for those fast enough to jump on it.

"skill up the retriever" lets you fly all the barges, so you'll grab a covetor and a mammoth if you care about m3, which all miners do care about. unless, of course the m3 difference between the hulk and retriever will be very very small making the hulk totally redundant (which i think would be very ironic).

i think, in terms for potential profits based on speculation, the procurer has the most room for profit, and the retriever has the least.
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-26 22:22:50 UTC
The retriever prices have already jumped up about 30% this week. I have not been watching the rest.
Mostly because I am working on skills to get into a retriever and I am a few days away yet.
And watching prices climb fast. And the blue print prices jumped as well.
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