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You really want to "revitalize null", "boost low"... then ball it up
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Danfen Fenix
#41 - 2012-06-23 22:06:14 UTC
Ituhata wrote:


Oh my, they might have to HTFU and learn to use DSCAN,


And when they're in a cloaky ship, with possibility to warp scram/hot drop?

DSCAN doesn't really 'help' in that kind of situation P Removing local would be nice yes. But only if it came with some method of decloaking people other than flying next to them. Such as an IHub uograde that removes the ability of all cloaks in system, or something like that.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-06-23 22:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system; that is their only limitation.
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#43 - 2012-06-23 22:07:15 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Interdictors are a nono since they use the fearsome bubble and the rest are useless if you can't get the enemy to appear at a gate and force him to fight.


So you cant set a bait ship, you cant probe someone down, you cant fleet warp in and get the point and throw a bubble up and kill something?


Have you ever seen a 0.0 ganker whose ship did not have the ability to easily get away from a trap?


Dual prop dramiels really, but then there are webbers. There's a counter for everything, if you want to keep throwing up a new condition that negates my previous statement it turns out they make a ship that can counter it. Sucess will not be guaranteed but it is certainly achievable.

Dualprop dramiels require 2+ webs from a frigate to be caught. 3+ from anything else.

Some other ganker ships that can easily GTFO: Vagabond, Cynabal, Curse, Pilgrim (sort of), Ishtar, Vigilant, Gila, Cerberus, Hurricane, Drake, all tier 3 BCs, all T3 cruisers, and any battleship that can project damage to over 30 km (most of them).


I always thought rapiers were rather effective at catching drams. I do like that you gave props to my 1200kps drake as a ship that can escape point. I've personally not had much success with that but the other guy usually brought a decent fleet.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#44 - 2012-06-23 22:08:08 UTC
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
700+ DPS cloaky blaster Proteus

No worse than afk cloaking.

It's worse. The target doesn't see the Proteus coming on d-scan.
Ituhata wrote:

Sicne they have a fleet they can now go wreck your alliances operations.

I'd like to see CVA wreck my alliance's FW operations with their defense fleets when they fail to catch our Provi roaming gang.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#45 - 2012-06-23 22:10:34 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system, that is their only limitation.


Good cloakers can usually break through, especially on those long camps where people start to get bored and aren't ready when the jump in happens. It's not a 100% guarantee either way. Maybe I was just in terribad fleets but with drams and fast frigs orbiting the gate with assist drones, bubbles, and dps and the interceptors knowing the max speed trick to stop from auto decelerating after overview drop via cloak and from what i remember the success rate is probably 20%.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#46 - 2012-06-23 22:11:15 UTC
Ituhata wrote:
I always thought rapiers were rather effective at catching drams. I do like that you gave props to my 1200kps drake as a ship that can escape point. I've personally not had much success with that but the other guy usually brought a decent fleet.

Rapiers still have targeting recalibration after decloaking, and Dramiels are still fast.

A 1200 m/s Drake only needs to break out of long point range to warp, or to even just stay aligned at 40 km and pelt its target with HMLs, while not pointing.

Oh! I just realized something else that is just brilliant. I can bring my Orca into 0.0 for reshipping! Why would I ever want to own 0.0 space ever again?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#47 - 2012-06-23 22:11:30 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I'd like to see CVA wreck my alliance's FW operations with their defense fleets when they fail to catch our Provi roaming gang.


Well that sounds like you doubt CVA's ability to do battle with you. Smile
Danfen Fenix
#48 - 2012-06-23 22:13:49 UTC
Ituhata wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I'd like to see CVA wreck my alliance's FW operations with their defense fleets when they fail to catch our Provi roaming gang.


Well that sounds like you doubt CVA's ability to do battle with you. Smile


Trust me...after living in provi for a few months I don't think he has any 'doubt' of the situation P More like a certainty
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#49 - 2012-06-23 22:15:25 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Rapiers still have targeting recalibration after decloaking, and Dramiels are still fast.

A 1200 m/s Drake only needs to break out of long point range to warp, or to even just stay aligned at 40 km and pelt its target with HMLs, while not pointing.

Oh! I just realized something else that is just brilliant. I can bring my Orca into 0.0 for reshipping! Why would I ever want to own 0.0 space ever again?


The guy I used to roll with didn't seem to have a problem nailing these guys. He was pretty awesome though, he liked playing hunter seeker games solo. Can't say if he was cloaked all the time.

In my experience drakes are usually being pointed by something alot faster and smaller so theyre hard to kill with heavies (i know i fail, no HAMS), which i actually got into the habit of carrying ec-500's for that reason, to escape.

To be honest I am seriously considering skilling up a carrier and squatting on someones land for the rest of my playing days.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-06-23 22:15:41 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
lrn2scout I guess.

Sure, let me go get a second account so i can make sure whats ahead. Thats a definition of hardcore, and no it's not "just a game" for you if you have more than 1 account.

Here's an idea, maybe we don't want to be "hardcore" ? Stop trying to pull us towards your kind.


In a thread discussing 0.0 and and low security modifications, an area known for needing group play, deriding players for using multiple accounts is silly.
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#51 - 2012-06-23 22:18:07 UTC
Danfen Fenix wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I'd like to see CVA wreck my alliance's FW operations with their defense fleets when they fail to catch our Provi roaming gang.


Well that sounds like you doubt CVA's ability to do battle with you. Smile


Trust me...after living in provi for a few months I don't think he has any 'doubt' of the situation P More like a certainty



Weren't they in a 3 way fight with red and nulli? Just glancing at the map it looked like they took some ground at one point. I know Red lost the southern war and was weakened by it but I am under the impression that nulli is good?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-06-23 22:20:39 UTC
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system, that is their only limitation.


Good cloakers can usually break through, especially on those long camps where people start to get bored and aren't ready when the jump in happens. It's not a 100% guarantee either way.

Exactly; that's what works about the current system. Good cloakers can break through, they can also be stopped by a good gatecamp. If they don't have cloaks, they might have to fight their way through into the enemy's space. Replacing it with a system where everyone automatically succeed in reaching wherever they want to go would be a disaster and I'm not sure exactly what we're arguing about at this point.
Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#53 - 2012-06-23 22:23:45 UTC
While I admit sitting on a gate camp for 9 hours, blapping maybe 2 guys an hour is hardly pvp, taking gates out entirely is dumb. This won't fix the game, and it retcons the lore.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#54 - 2012-06-23 22:25:14 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system, that is their only limitation.


Good cloakers can usually break through, especially on those long camps where people start to get bored and aren't ready when the jump in happens. It's not a 100% guarantee either way.

Exactly; that's what works about the current system. Good cloakers can break through, they can also be stopped by a good gatecamp. If they don't have cloaks, they might have to fight their way through into the enemy's space. Replacing it with a system where everyone automatically succeed in reaching wherever they want to go would be a disaster and I'm not sure exactly what we're arguing about at this point.


You're discriminating against the terrible cloakers and discrimination is mean and bad and you should feel mean and bad, you mean and bad person.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#55 - 2012-06-23 22:26:18 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system, that is their only limitation.


Good cloakers can usually break through, especially on those long camps where people start to get bored and aren't ready when the jump in happens. It's not a 100% guarantee either way.

Exactly; that's what works about the current system. Good cloakers can break through, they can also be stopped by a good gatecamp. If they don't have cloaks, they might have to fight their way through into the enemy's space. Replacing it with a system where everyone automatically succeed in reaching wherever they want to go would be a disaster and I'm not sure exactly what we're arguing about at this point.


lowsucks is telling nullbears they suck, nullbears telling lowsecks not to comment where they have no idea. Attackers want easy mode, defenders want easy mode, no one is happy.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#56 - 2012-06-23 22:27:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its called a titan jump bridge.


Well, at least you were good enough to admit that you are a fool in that other forum-toilet/threadnaught, but even if you hadn't, then here we'd have irrefutable proof, regardless.

Next!

E:

CCP BUFF BLACK-OPS FFSRollEvil

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#57 - 2012-06-23 22:31:11 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
I like your thinking, but IMO probes are a tad to easy as is.

I think gates should still exist, but should dump you at some random point in the next system, rather then gate to gate. While your "every ship jump capable" idea is good in theory, how do you suggext getting from region to region, i.e Y-2 in fountain to ZXB in delve?

So yeah, systems still have out gates, but jumps you to random point in target system.


This should be how it is in deep hisec.

"Free-range" warping as the OP envisions it outside of that. (And no local-chat in those systems either, should go without saying)

Make space huge again, CCP, k? K.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#58 - 2012-06-23 22:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ituhata
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ituhata wrote:

No worse than afk cloaking.

AFK cloakers can be stopped at a gatecamp when they try to enter the target system, that is their only limitation.


Good cloakers can usually break through, especially on those long camps where people start to get bored and aren't ready when the jump in happens. It's not a 100% guarantee either way.

Exactly; that's what works about the current system. Good cloakers can break through, they can also be stopped by a good gatecamp. If they don't have cloaks, they might have to fight their way through into the enemy's space. Replacing it with a system where everyone automatically succeed in reaching wherever they want to go would be a disaster and I'm not sure exactly what we're arguing about at this point.


It's just a different ballgame altogether. The goalpost gets moves from getting in system to getting to a target, in sov that is the station/ihub, for roaming gangs its probing down an opposing one or carebears, for gankers its gettting to the carebear. The carebear will have the hardest adjustment as he'll have to do what they do in highsec, stay aligned and keep the dscan out and be ready to leave at a moments notice. It would be a revolution in combat, and I'd see recons and probes being alot more viable than they are now. Yes, at first I think there will be a wave of deaths while people adjust, but eventually would normalize to an acceptable level while at the same time inviting many, many more targets into the fray so a consistent amount of pew pew and a true playground for the hunter and hunted.

EDIT: I fell behind on alot of replies, sorry.

Yes Petrus, vagas were always hard to catch and its usualyl the pilots ego that gets them killed. Lol

Quote:
And when they're in a cloaky ship, with possibility to warp scram/hot drop?


I'm assuming every cloaky has some sort of targeting delay, the guy ratting just needs to pay attention, when something pops up 2k off in a ship he needs to be warping now. Again, not asking anything more than we are of hisec miners.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-06-23 22:45:40 UTC
Ituhata wrote:


It's just a different ballgame altogether. The goalpost gets moves from getting in system to getting to a target, in sov that is the station/ihub, for roaming gangs its probing down an opposing one or carebears, for gankers its gettting to the carebear. The carebear will have the hardest adjustment as he'll have to do what they do in highsec, stay aligned and keep the dscan out and be ready to leave at a moments notice. It would be a revolution in combat, and I'd see recons and probes being alot more viable than they are now. Yes, at first I think there will be a wave of deaths while people adjust, but eventually would normalize to an acceptable level while at the same time inviting many, many more targets into the fray so a consistent amount of pew pew and a true playground for the hunter and hunted.
All you have to do in highsec is fit a tank that trades yield for ehp, no aligning required. And with the upcoming update, soon they'll fit the tank for you. Anyways, what would happen is that players would just go back to grinding incursions and L4s like they were before the incursion-nerf and then roaming each others space looking for the gankable ships that are no longer there, since this is what happens every time highsec gets a huge buff or 0.0 becomes less useable as a resource.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#60 - 2012-06-23 22:49:45 UTC
Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Confirming that the OP is an idiot.


Careful, personal attack, non productive post . I could go on ....

At least he's throwing some Ideas out there feasible or no.

Tal