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Fatbottom Girl
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-06-23 20:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Fatbottom Girl
CCP Xhagen says. "Technically speaking, they were not doing anything that was forbidden

June 22, 2012 Never forget.

The death of the sandbox came as innocuously as it began. A group of enterprising individuals who examine patch notes and run spreadsheets and formulas found a way to get ahead of a poorly implemented feature on an upcoming patch. The Viking Gods of CCP hf saw fit to sacrifice innovation upon the altar of expediency.

Walls slammed into place and bars were erected. "You may go this far and no further," was the message. This bold and beautiful universe we live in became much smaller.

June 22, 2012 Never forget.
Trendon Evenstar
Olympus Gods
#2 - 2012-06-23 20:33:11 UTC
Well said.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#3 - 2012-06-23 20:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Fatbottom Girl wrote:
blah blah blah

Sandboxes have always had boundaries, otherwise they would just be beaches or deserts or something.

Edit: OK I admit that analogy isn't perfect, but my point still stands.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-23 21:11:16 UTC
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.
Strong Black Woman
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-23 21:37:53 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#6 - 2012-06-23 21:47:42 UTC
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2012-06-23 22:10:56 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rengerel en Distel
#8 - 2012-06-23 22:30:01 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?


Seems to be a recurring theme that CCP doesn't listen to the testers, then knee-jerks a reaction.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#9 - 2012-06-23 22:41:49 UTC
You do know Sandboxes have walls right? This is a Sandbox not a desert.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#10 - 2012-06-23 23:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: No More Heroes
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


The mechanic still exists, the mechanic itself was totally intended. It was the market manipulation of various items that let the guys do what they did. And if market manipulation is an exploit well then...**** me.

.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#11 - 2012-06-23 23:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
You do know Sandboxes have walls right? This is a Sandbox not a desert.


I agree - and Eve has tons of walls - the thing however is that if CCP mess a mechanic up (i.e. they set the walls wrong), people can and will exploit it. CCP then may realize it isn't working as they meant it to work and may label it an exploit.

Everyone using the mechanic after that should have the assets and isk they made that way removed - fine. Up to the point they labeled it an exploit, it's a game mechanic.

Anyone remember the ferrogel incident? CCP have been made aware of the exploit several times and never fixed it - then, they suddenly realize it and punish people for their own mistake and failure to read bug reports... Now that obviously was a bug, but the mechanic was there, was reported and was neither fixed or labeled an expoit for ages, then all of a sudden CCP swings the banhammer for their own shortcomings.

What about the margin trading scam? That's more exploitative of weird game mechanics than what goons did here - will CCP suddenly decide it's an exploit after years of leaving it untouched and seize isk retroactively?
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-23 23:34:07 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?



Fecking hundred times this tbh !!

brb
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-23 23:54:43 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Fatbottom Girl wrote:
blah blah blah

Sandboxes have always had boundaries, otherwise they would just be beaches or deserts or something.


beaches and deserts have boundaries, otherwise they would be Arrakis or Tatooine or something

– postum faex est – 

never forget
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#14 - 2012-06-24 00:01:24 UTC
Excessive tears by Goon alts?


Exploit: to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.

If this is too hard to understand, perhaps I can find a kiddie's dictionary to link for you? Shocked



Signature removed - CCP Eterne
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#15 - 2012-06-24 00:05:08 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Excessive tears by Goon alts?


Exploit: to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.

If this is too hard to understand, perhaps I can find a kiddie's dictionary to link for you? Shocked


Some words have more than one definition depending on the context.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#16 - 2012-06-24 00:13:23 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Fatbottom Girl wrote:
blah blah blah

Sandboxes have always had boundaries, otherwise they would just be beaches or deserts or something.

Hmm, but even then deserts and beaches end eventually, so if a sandbox didnt have walls it would HAVE cover the entire planet, but then thats a boundry.

In conclusion, a sandbox without walls will fill the universe with sand

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-06-24 00:26:14 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
The mechanic still exists, then mechanic itself was totally intended. It was the market manipulation of various items that let the guys do what they did.


This doesn't make any sense. Market manipulation versus other players is fine. Market manipulation versus NPCs in order to basically dupe LP is not really intended. I'd appreciate a link where CCP explicitly states that you should be able to get unlimited LP from FW kills + market manipulation. If you think CCP knows about every possibility of their new game mechanics, you haven't been playing very long.

You are still free to charge 500m for a worthless LP store implant but if you think that gives you the right to exploit a poorly thought out formula in order to gain unlimited LP/items then you are sadly mistaken.

I hope you guys did at least a few 100+ man stabber/tempest fleet issue roams or else you are pretty bad at EVE.
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-24 00:34:16 UTC
When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Is this not a saying that is part of the Eve mantras?

When you get a result from your actions and say "Wow I bet CCP didn't indend THAT", you are probably right. People realize when they are exploiting, and cry foul when called on it.

Oh, and everyone needs to get over themselves with this "breaking the sandbox" BS. A sandbox has limits and rules by definition, just not a narrow direction. Just because you don't like a rule does not mean it breaks anything.
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-06-24 00:40:26 UTC
Savage Angel wrote:


When you get a result from your actions and say "Wow I bet CCP didn't indend THAT", you are probably right. People realize when they are exploiting, and cry foul when called on it.




I always think that when I board a Minmatar ship.

I think I'm pretty safe, though - CCP would have to ban 80% of eves playerbase.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#20 - 2012-06-24 00:56:16 UTC
Posting in a Goon alt wine thread...

...
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