Test Server Feedback

What is being asked for is 2 buttons on the Neocom. One directly opens the items window, the other the ship hangar. And a shortcut for each. The idea here is that no matter what state your windows happen to be in, you know by clicking just one button that's always in the same place on the screen, you will be looking at your ships.

Same with the corp hangar. You want one button which is always in the same place on the screen, which when clicked results in you looking at the corp hangar.

Its a muscle-memory thing. You learn that all you need to is go here, click, and you got what you want.

Yes Vincent, Id say that without mention of the need to scroll and hunt down the bay you wish to open, as opposed to right clicking a ship always centered on your screen, you've missed something. (Unless you're scrolling w/o clicking the scroll bar.) But more importantly, you've missed in these thousands of comments that the issue is about multiple windows. Many industrialists rely on them. Your 2+2 scenario ends at the first.

YK

Well, last time I checked on SiSi, a couple of days ago, you *still* have THREE inventory systems. [Update: Still true.]

Before: (1) The one where it just shows you the content of the container, and (2) the Assets window.
Now: (1) The one where it just shows you the content of the container, still available when you merge ship and items views into the station panel, (2) the Assets window, which is what needed this overhaul in the first place, and what you guys SAID you were going to do, before you went off the rails, and (3) This new thing, which still looks promising as a replacement for the Assets window.

But, of course, you don't actually need three implementations. One would do -- just reuse the CONTAINER part of the inventory window in exact replacement for the old CONTAINER views, and nobody will even know the code changed. Replace the assets window with a somewhat enhanced tree view (suitable for use in navigation, as the Assets window is now), and you're down to your magical one implementation.

But right now, you're at three. If you follow the general advice you've been getting from the player base, you can get it down to one, but that's not the direction you're headed, sadly.

Nice claim. CCP Goliath made it, too. People challenged him and CCP to provide some documentation of just how this would be possible, what possibly we could be missing in the UI that would let us do this.

No response -- just the repeated claim, and the blind expectation that the entire @#$ player base is just too stupid to get the marvels of the new UI, but someday we'll magically see the light.

Well. Let's take a look at this.

I want to open the fuel bay. So I hop on SiSi, and climb into my Moros (which is one hop away, since you turned the system I set up in into a combat system, sigh).

I see two paths:

1) I can open the cargohold, open the tree, expand my ship, shift click on Fuel Bay, close new tree, then click on the fuel bay window again to bring it to the front.

Hmm, that's 6 clicks, one shifted (thus requiring two hands).

Nope, that's not it.

2) I start with the inventory window. If I'm lucky, this saves me the step of opening the tree. Otherwise, exactly the same.

And that's only because both of these open the tree to the top, where my active ship is. If I wanted to access a corporate delivery hanger, for example, I'd have to SCROLL DOWN (using your unique scroll bars that respond to clicks differently than anybody else in the known universe) to locate the right item on the tree.

Is there some magic I'm missing? Me and everybody else?

Again, nothing new here. Please catch up with us, so we can have a productive conversation.

And once again, this is a topic that has been well covered. This primary/secondary window distinction does not correspond to the user model, and adds, not removes, frustration and confusion.

As I've pointed out before, at a POS, the secondary windows end up inadequately labelled, so you can't tell which corporate hanger array you're looking at, for example.

But the primary/secondary distinction leads to other inconsistencies I don't feel like going and researching again. Go read the thread.

The reason things take longer are pretty much covered in the points I repeated above, and more that are covered in the original thread.

Opening all the inventory windows you need is much more time-consuming now, and it involves messing with inventory on both sides of the transfers. It not only takes more time, it is less predictable, subject to frustration as the primary windows go do random unwanted things, or the secondary windows leave you guessing as to which hanger you're looking at (even though you NAMED the friggin things precisely to avoid that confusion).

By the way, yes, the ability to name things is a VAST improvement. What took so long? But I've named all my guns and things, and now when I play starbase defender, I can tell what I'm doing. See, that's what a UI improvement looks like -- making things more clear, saving steps, reducing confusion.

But please take note of this: The reason you're seeing all these 1+'s is because THESE ARE NOT EDGE CASES. These really ARE things where lots and lots of people are hitting the exact same issues, over and over and over again.

And they've been telling you about them, over and over again. And you're not listening.

You don't need people telling you more specific details. The problems have been detailed into the ground. Until you start actually responding to the details already provided, you're just annoying the customer base.

Lots and lots of us have put in CONSIDERABLE effort in giving you guys constructive, actionable feedback, both with respect to a process and communications, that won't **** off your player base, and detailed suggestions for how to properly integrate this and make it work well.

People have even gone to the trouble of making actual prototypes, and walking you through them with YouTube videos.

Frankly, I think the player community has put more thought and analysis and work into the design than you have. And I say that knowing full well what's involved in doing a UI design -- we're talking about a LOT of thought, and a lot of work in attempting to communicate these thoughts to you.

But it is plain that there's a lot of players out here who have a better handle on what the players have been telling you than you do.

This makes for an enormous amount of frustration.

And finally, please get it out of your head that the issue here is changing workflow. This isn't players resisting change. This is players struggling to work even half as efficiently with these things. And despite having been repeatedly challenged to demonstrate how the new system is even no worse than the old, CCP has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot.

The general challenge has gone unanswered. There have been a few attempts, as you did, to suggest a parity, but on closer examination, that "parity" has been an illusion. Every. Single. Time.

There was nothing wrong with the old workflow. There was not even anything incompatible with the new inventory windows. The old model was simple and direct: To look inside something, open it.

"Too many container windows" was not a problem that needed solving, and you didn't solve it.

As detailed in the ORIGINAL dev post about this, the problem to be solved was "finding all my stuff". That's the assets window. But you veered off the track, and made it hard to get the stuff we already KNOW where is.

CCP RubberBAND:

Please go read all 907 posts in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117617

Please post here and there when you have completed this task.

Until you've actually read the player feedback, we cannot take you seriously.

Thank you.

I think part of the issue is that some of us don't wanna have to hold shift to open separate windows, like we don't have enough hot keys as it is. I personally love having multiple windows so I can physically see all the things I need at once ex: fuel bay/ cooperate hanger open at the same time. Maybe have the fuel bay in the right click menu and when accessed through the right click menu it open a secondary window automatically?

I think by stringing things to the right click menu to automatically open a secondary window would fix most of the concerns many of us have with the inventory. By doing so, you keep the initial primary inventory method but allow for nearly the same functionality that so many of us are used to if we go through the right click menu instead of through the primary inventory window. I know for me this would quelle all my complaints about the new systems functionality.

Add to this an option to have array divisions back in tabs across the top of a window vs. having to expand the tree/select division/collapse tree and I'd definitely be a happy camper.

This is very true.

I think the unified inventory should be re-worked into the assets window. Then the old inventory system should be re-created perfectly. That would be my solution if I where in the Dev's situation.