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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Author
Zedrik Cayne
Standards and Practices
#2001 - 2012-06-23 03:25:08 UTC
Aha..finally made it to the bottom again.

Just a couple observations.

1) This is CCP's sandbox that we play in. They can do whatever they damn well please with it. Including implementing what seems to be an unfair punishment.
2) Have we learned yet not to tweak CCP's nose? Any time you make the gods of your universe unhappy. Someone is going to get the short end of the stick in an uncomfortable place.

Do I agree with what CCP is doing (the alleged confiscation of items from folks that had nothing to do with whatever they will choose to call this)? Nope. I understand. But I don't agree.

Then again. CCP has forever and a day more or less said that this game is not meant to be fair.

But right now. Effectively the concord division of the SEC is taking a very hard look at a bunch of people. Cardboard boxes of stuff and isk are being put away. Until the forensic economist can come in and look at the mess.

When will the devs speak up and say what is on their minds? Who knows.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2002 - 2012-06-23 03:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Richard Desturned wrote:

oh yes, Mercenary Coalition, well known Goonswarm allies


Something tells me that even if you had my point webbed and scrammed you'd still miss it.



Cloned S0ul wrote:
After 100 pages.

Non goons troling goons, goons trolling goons, goons trolling non goons, goons trolling CCP, non goons troling CCP, CCP trolling non goons, CCP troling goons because this therad still exist, everybody trolling everyone.





In a nutshell, yes. But I'm enjoying goons attempts to counter troll me none the less. and my slowly climbing likes lead me to sense others are enjoying the show as well.
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2003 - 2012-06-23 03:27:29 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:

oh yes, Mercenary Coalition, well known Goonswarm allies


Something tells me that even if you had my point webbed and scrammed you'd still miss it.



Cloned S0ul wrote:
After 100 pages.

Non goons troling goons, goons trolling goons, goons trolling non goons, goons trolling CCP, non goons troling CCP, CCP trolling non goons, CCP troling goons because this therad still exist, everybody trolling everyone.





In a nutshell, yes. But I'm enjoying goons attempts to counter troll me none the less.


No, we get it, Big Tit ninja girls saved MC when goons screwed them over.
InternetSpaceship
Perkone
Caldari State
#2004 - 2012-06-23 03:30:31 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Yes you do. Again read the first pages of this thread all the Goons jumping in to pat themselves on the back , Now its nothing to do with you, how does that work ?

Tal


No, we don't.



Goons took credit at the beginning of the thread now your saying your not , inconsistent ?

Tal




I get the feeling you perceive "goons" as some kind of gigantic hive mind being. When a few take credit, they all take credit sympathetically.

To answer your question, every single goon didn't take credit for this. I certainly approved of it, and still do, but that doesn't mean I had a hand in it. I sure wish I did, but are you really advocating that CCP ban all of us just because a few did it, and a few more approve?

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2005 - 2012-06-23 03:30:45 UTC
Paint wrote:

No, we get it, Big Tit ninja girls saved MC when goons screwed them over.



Not quite, but if I could have arraigned that, I'd probably have been declared God Emperor of EvE, because half the game would have joined my corp to meet big titted ninja girls.
Hammer V Dagenhart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2006 - 2012-06-23 03:31:27 UTC
Posting in a thread about posts.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2007 - 2012-06-23 03:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Hammer V Dagenhart wrote:
Posting in a thread about posts.


I thought it was a thread about epeens, and how painful it was for goons to get theirs slapped by CCP once it got good and hard.


Actually, this pretty well sums up my view on what the GMs should have done on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Ad1AuHriI
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2008 - 2012-06-23 03:38:53 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Hammer V Dagenhart wrote:
Posting in a thread about posts.


I thought it was a thread about epeens, and how painful it was for goons to get theirs slapped by CCP once it got good and hard.


Well not all of us can save Mercenary Coalition while being Ninja girls with very large breasts. Some us have to settle for less I guess.
Xython
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2009 - 2012-06-23 03:39:40 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Xython wrote:


I still think it's better that 5 people who are working with CCP to help explain and investigate the emergent gameplay of the change is better than 500 people exploiting it slowly over the course of a year, but that's just me. :)


Working with CCP? You mean making long smug posts about how much money they made and trying to cover their butts with a PR slant on their use of an exploit? Somebody who was working with CCP would have reported the problem and not tried to make a huge amount of isk from it. And then reap a huge PR bonanza from it by posting about it and making the error public.

I think Goonswarm has shown CCP just how much of a friend they are.


No, but thank you for asking. I was actually talking about the private communication our Economics team sent CCP before making this smug post on our forums (and then reposting it here to stir up trouble). I can see your confusion, but let me be clear: Our Economics team specifically did this in a pattern to avoid completely destroying the economy (for example, they were specifically avoiding favoring any one faction) and communicated everything they did to CCP after they felt they had enough evidence in place that there was a severe problem that needed addressing.
Sekket
Perkone
Caldari State
#2010 - 2012-06-23 03:40:03 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
No isk was created by this method. Isk was actually SUNK by this method into FW stores and broker's fees.

All the isk pulled in was from player's hands.


And this whole thread is like a giant billboard advertising the fire sale.
  • CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE

Xython
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2011 - 2012-06-23 03:40:36 UTC
Paint wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Xython wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.


So the only people allowed to make bug reports are those willing to fly to Iceland and donate their time as computer programmers?

You make less and less sense the more you talk, PrONEncess Alia.


You do know its possible to report a bug without spending a month on a grand james bond villain-esq plan to exploit the bug and announce how incredibly clever you were for exploiting it on the eve online forums right ?

Just checking.


It was reported, even funnier you apparently knew about it before it was reported here and didn't report it either.

Good job!


Not only that, Jadeykins exploited almost 9 billion ISK before CCP stepped in. Pot, meet kettle! :D
InternetSpaceship
Perkone
Caldari State
#2012 - 2012-06-23 03:41:05 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
[list]

  • PS I love how you goons all circlejerked at the beginning of this thread and now are backtracking heavily.


    No one is doing this. We all cheered and supported them, and we still do. We just don't think the entire alliance should be banned. Hell, we don't think the people who did this should be banned. They told CCP they could do it, and CCP was basically like "Big deal". No one is distancing themselves, no one needs to.

    Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

    If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.

    Xython
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #2013 - 2012-06-23 03:42:33 UTC
    Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
    Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:

    Burn Jita did just about **** all to the markets, and from my understanding, didn't really "inflict mass suffering" on anyone other than yourselves. People knew it was happening so they avoided the system for the most part. You just wasted a large portion of time because you threw a temper tantrum over Mittani getting a slap on the wrist for trying to coax everyone to get a guy to kill himself.


    Yeah, they killed fifty freighters over a period of several days. I noticed that quite a few of them stopped posting when I pointed out that was a tiny fraction of Jita's usual daily traffic, and most people just went around.


    That's funny, we also noticed the "LOL GEWNS" guys shutting up pretty damned quick when CCP posted a devblog about it stating that trading in Jita was down what, 50% that weekend? Not bad for a test run. Now if only we had, say, 5 trillion ISK laying around for a nice month long go at it... Right around the time the wardec changes were messed with again making it hard to wardec us and screw with our fun...
    Cygnet Lythanea
    World Welfare Works Association
    #2014 - 2012-06-23 03:42:55 UTC
    Paint wrote:

    Well not all of us can save Mercenary Coalition while being Ninja girls with very large breasts. Some us have to settle for less I guess.



    Paint, I fully expect by the end of the night, you'll be saying that I'm the secret power behind goons, BoB, and every other chickenshit outfit that's come along.

    I do not require your worship to maintain my near infinite power and I gain no satisfaction from it.
    RougeOperator
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #2015 - 2012-06-23 03:44:39 UTC
    I said something like this was possible when they listed the changes that were coming.

    I was told no one would want to do the work to pull it off.

    Seems I new better.

    This is all CCPs fault, this was a super obvious thing. It was one of the reasons i was against the FW changes that and station lockout. Most of the stuff wrong that is happening in FW was super obvious and long term bad ideas.

    There is no way to fix this without being unfair about it now.

    I give goons props for pulling off what I suggested to others ages ago. I dont think they should be punished for this. CCP will have to give them something in fair exchange for what they pulled off.

    maybe trillions is the going price for the right to name a system or two.

    **Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

    Xython
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #2016 - 2012-06-23 03:45:40 UTC
    RougeOperator wrote:
    I said something like this was possible when they listed the changes that were coming.

    I was told no one would want to do the work to pull it off.

    Seems I new better.

    This is all CCPs fault, this was a super obvious thing. It was one of the reasons i was against the FW changes that and station lockout. Most of the stuff wrong that is happening in FW was super obvious and long term bad ideas.

    There is no way to fix this without being unfair about it now.

    I give goons props for pulling off what I suggested to others ages ago. I dont think they should be punished for this. CCP will have to give them something in fair exchange for what they pulled off.

    maybe trillions is the going price for the right to name a system or two.



    Holy crap, I'm actually agreeing with one of your posts. +1.
    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #2017 - 2012-06-23 03:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
    Xython wrote:
    Paint wrote:
    Jade Constantine wrote:
    Xython wrote:
    Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
    they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.


    So the only people allowed to make bug reports are those willing to fly to Iceland and donate their time as computer programmers?

    You make less and less sense the more you talk, PrONEncess Alia.


    You do know its possible to report a bug without spending a month on a grand james bond villain-esq plan to exploit the bug and announce how incredibly clever you were for exploiting it on the eve online forums right ?

    Just checking.


    It was reported, even funnier you apparently knew about it before it was reported here and didn't report it either.

    Good job!


    Not only that, Jadeykins exploited almost 9 billion ISK before CCP stepped in. Pot, meet kettle! :D


    You shouldn't tell lies or spread nasty rumours about other Eve players.

    Protip Buying things with legally earned LP from the loyalty point store is not "exploiting."

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Paint
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #2018 - 2012-06-23 03:46:09 UTC
    Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
    Paint wrote:

    Well not all of us can save Mercenary Coalition while being Ninja girls with very large breasts. Some us have to settle for less I guess.



    Paint, I fully expect by the end of the night, you'll be saying that I'm the secret power behind goons, BoB, and every other chickenshit outfit that's come along.

    I do not require your worship to maintain my near infinite power and I gain no satisfaction from it.


    Well I am a little sad that you are quitting next week you see. I mean, someone as important and e-famous as you obviously has a big future left in this game. Perhaps you could single handedly save another alliance or two.
    ModeratedToSilence
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #2019 - 2012-06-23 03:46:31 UTC
    A large amount of stone throwing entering this thread. Moderators really should clean it up.
    InternetSpaceship
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #2020 - 2012-06-23 03:47:57 UTC
    Lord Zim wrote:
    Jade Constantine wrote:
    Well its not the first time that the "eve is a sandbox" theme gets thrown by the wayside when game mechanics are used in an apparently unexpected way.

    It hasn't changed status from being a sandbox, the rules are just being changed.
    Jade Constantine wrote:
    The recent plan to near completely nerf defensive allies from the Inferno wardec system is a pretty good example of ("fairness for the attacker" trumping the sandbox of emergent gameplay and unexpected consequences) and its not the first time thats happened in the realm of hisec wardecs either.

    Yes, let's completely gloss over the fact that the reason for the change was the fact that everybody more or less dogpiled into every wardec which was opened up to the public, where some corps had 50-70 active wardecs.


    I kinda liked that. Given long enough, everyone in highsec would eventually be wardecced to everyone, and it would effectively be nullsec.

    So yeah, roll back the wardec nerfs, ccp.

    Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

    If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.