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Go ahead CCP, listen to the people in the "make null virbant again" thread

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#301 - 2012-06-22 18:06:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

2) PvP ships are reimbursed anyway, so you don't risk losing any ISK for doing the real risky 0.0 activity...


Not all 0.0 alliances are swimming in tech ISK, just FYI.

We get Cynos, Logis, Dictors and Commandships reimbursed, anything else you lose, you pay for it yourself.


I was in a corp with zero tech moons and we had all reimbursed including carriers and dreads.

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#302 - 2012-06-22 18:23:56 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

2) PvP ships are reimbursed anyway, so you don't risk losing any ISK for doing the real risky 0.0 activity...


Not all 0.0 alliances are swimming in tech ISK, just FYI.

We get Cynos, Logis, Dictors and Commandships reimbursed, anything else you lose, you pay for it yourself.


I was in a corp with zero tech moons and we had all reimbursed including carriers and dreads.


My old wormhole crew ran a pure communist outfit.
No one had any cash, yet everyone had access to a complete stable of ships, from T1 frigs up to Dreads.
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#303 - 2012-06-23 00:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrr Woodcock
Well, the fact is we have to make Low and Null sec more interesting. Now before anyone gets started, I’m totally against forcing anyone in the game to do anything they choose not to do. I don’t think this is in anyway in the interest of the players, (including all of them) or CCP.

With that said I would propose the following, enhancements:

Make Low, and Null basically where the cheese is. In other words increase the rewards to Low sec & Null sec significantly. Make the roids a lot bigger. Much better mission agents reside there, with basically 25 times the payout or more than high sec mission agents. It has to be enough to encourage the high sec mission runners, and miners to go there, because the ISK is simply so much better, it would seem foolish to remain in high sec.

Low sec, I think was intended to be a stepping stone to reaching Null sec. I think however Low sec is clearly the most dangerous space in Eve. I think it should made a little safer. One way would be to add a roaming Concord presence. This NPC force would not be all places all the time. This force would be the type that can show up with no notice what so ever, and cause serious damage to criminals. I think this would make things really interesting, make things a little safer, gradually over time try to make it what it was intended to be, less safe than high sec, but safer than Null. The roaming concord presence would be the type that travels by gate, with random fleets roaming in from high sec. This would allow a high sec player to follow them thru, and shadow the Concord fleet in a level of safety, unless of course they lost the fleet, lol. In which case they would be very venerable and likely fall prey to villains.

This sort of thing would need some serious thought by the CCP folks that make the big bucks to ensure it would be done in such a way, as not to disrupt things too much.

Most pirates that run the low sec system at first glance would think, NO we like it the way it is. But this type of change would have the probability of enticing new targets into the region, attracted by the big ISK to be made there. What Pirate wouldn’t like a lot of new fat and juicy targets? What thriving industrialists or missioner wouldn’t like to take advantage of a major increase in ISK making potential? No one will be forced to do anything, but many may be willing to jump into this willingly.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#304 - 2012-06-23 00:12:04 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.


We don't care if you move to nullsec or not. We do care, however, that actually living in nullsec (i.e. not just logging in your nullsec PvP main for fleets, but actually living there) is simply not worth the extra effort and risk compared to making ISK with a hisec l4 alt.

Also answer the other question I asked.


But...if you live in nulsec...why would you even need a hisec main? The money is crap compared to what you can get in nul...

John Hancock
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#305 - 2012-06-23 00:12:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

2) PvP ships are reimbursed anyway, so you don't risk losing any ISK for doing the real risky 0.0 activity...


Not all 0.0 alliances are swimming in tech ISK, just FYI.

We get Cynos, Logis, Dictors and Commandships reimbursed, anything else you lose, you pay for it yourself.


I was in a corp with zero tech moons and we had all reimbursed including carriers and dreads.



Whoopedoo for you. I've been in a corp for over 3 years that hasn't failcascaded so I'm still having fun in 0.0.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#306 - 2012-06-23 00:12:59 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.


We don't care if you move to nullsec or not. We do care, however, that actually living in nullsec (i.e. not just logging in your nullsec PvP main for fleets, but actually living there) is simply not worth the extra effort and risk compared to making ISK with a hisec l4 alt.

Also answer the other question I asked.


But...if you live in nulsec...why would you even need a hisec main? The money is crap compared to what you can get in nul...



How many times?

No

it

isn't.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#307 - 2012-06-23 00:15:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
But...if you live in nulsec...why would you even need a hisec main? The money is crap compared to what you can get in nul...

How many times?

No

it

isn't.

It helps if they act like it is. Helps remove any pressure to nerf them or buff nullsec income (which would effectively hurt their income). So keep on repeating it ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#308 - 2012-06-23 00:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.


We don't care if you move to nullsec or not. We do care, however, that actually living in nullsec (i.e. not just logging in your nullsec PvP main for fleets, but actually living there) is simply not worth the extra effort and risk compared to making ISK with a hisec l4 alt.

Also answer the other question I asked.


But...if you live in nulsec...why would you even need a hisec main? The money is crap compared to what you can get in nul...

If you ever wanna do stuff like research blueprints or manufacture anything or trade/market manipulate bulk goods its infinitely easier to do in highsec and then jump freighter the results or profits back to your null character. In terms of straight up resource gathering 0.0 is better obviously (except pre-Incursion nerf, where highsec was better at that too), assuming you're able to rat all day and never PVP or worry about defending your space.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#309 - 2012-06-23 00:26:58 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
In terms of straight up resource gathering 0.0 is better obviously (except pre-Incursion nerf, where highsec was better at that too), assuming you're able to rat all day and never PVP or worry about defending your space.

I, too, would like to be able to rat all day without damn reds coming in trying to mine my lossmails. X

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2012-06-23 08:15:32 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.


We don't care if you move to nullsec or not. We do care, however, that actually living in nullsec (i.e. not just logging in your nullsec PvP main for fleets, but actually living there) is simply not worth the extra effort and risk compared to making ISK with a hisec l4 alt.

Also answer the other question I asked.


But...if you live in nulsec...why would you even need a hisec main? The money is crap compared to what you can get in nul...

Let's presume you've got 2 hours a day you can dedicate to moneymaking, and that you're a coward so you choose L4s. You choose a sufficiently usable ship for L4s, and you reliably make, say, 70-80m/day for no effort and no risk.

Let's presume you have the same 2 hours a day you can dedicate to moneymaking, and you're not quite the coward, so you choose to make your money in nullsec. You choose a sufficiently usable ship for the most lucrative sanctum, and you try to run them. However, one day you get interrupted by 2-3 roaming gangs, and the next 3-4 days some blackops/bombers gang has decided to camp 4-5 different systems, yours amongst them. The first two days you just don't do anything, the third you start to get impatient because you haven't made much isk this week, and on the fourth you say **** it and run sanctums anyways. And you get popped. And you're now left having to buy a new ship and mods, which may or may not need to be imported from hisec, which may take a day or two to arrange.

And after all this is said and done, you're now left with less isk than you started with, whereas the guy who just went for L4s is now +800m. Which option would you choose?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#311 - 2012-06-23 08:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lord Zim wrote:
Let's presume you've got 2 hours a day you can dedicate to moneymaking, and that you're a coward so you choose L4s. You choose a sufficiently usable ship for L4s, and you reliably make, say, 70-80m/day for no effort and no risk.


Let's presume you don't copy and paste verbatim the same text all over the forums...

You get to earn pirate BPCs that cost 100k LP less and 100M less a piece than in hi sec and sell for twice as much on the contracts. You make money way faster or - if you choose a disposable T2 fit ship - you make the same ISK even if you lose regularly these ships.

So in the end, the only answer to your copy paste is what you posted above: "I am a coward...".

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#312 - 2012-06-23 13:16:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Let's presume you've got 2 hours a day you can dedicate to moneymaking, and that you're a coward so you choose L4s. You choose a sufficiently usable ship for L4s, and you reliably make, say, 70-80m/day for no effort and no risk.


Let's presume you don't copy and paste verbatim the same text all over the forums...

You get to earn pirate BPCs that cost 100k LP less and 100M less a piece than in hi sec and sell for twice as much on the contracts. You make money way faster or - if you choose a disposable T2 fit ship - you make the same ISK even if you lose regularly these ships.

So in the end, the only answer to your copy paste is what you posted above: "I am a coward...".


So simple, so eloquent.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2012-06-24 16:12:57 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You get to earn pirate BPCs that cost 100k LP less and 100M less a piece than in hi sec and sell for twice as much on the contracts.

So what you're saying is that even though I live in conquerable nullsec, I should go run NPC l4s to make money?

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You make money way faster or - if you choose a disposable T2 fit ship - you make the same ISK even if you lose regularly these ships.

It's not "way faster", you lose ships, you get downtime due to reds etc. It's not as clear-cut as you'd like it to be. And while it does pay out more, you work a lot more for it and you risk more to get it. And currently it obviously doesn't offer enough over what L4s can provide to entice people to run anoms in null instead of l4s, and when anoms were made so it did entice people out there to run them instead of run L4s, CCP got a panic attack about the state of the economy, which indicates to me there's an imbalance here.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
So in the end, the only answer to your copy paste is what you posted above: "I am a coward...".

Actually, I should change that to "lazy coward" for the next iteration, because it involves both. It also involves "being smart", since running L4s in hisec is much less stressful than doing things in null, and there's much less chance of losing your ship or having undesired downtime (reds in system, ship blown up with no replacement etc readily available, etc).

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#314 - 2012-06-24 17:11:18 UTC
Increase the amount of low-sec, remove non-POS stations from High Sec (but make POS's easier to use in High Sec.)


Everyone who wants to do industry and the market without risk = nope.



(Not a serious idea, but High Sec DOES need a nerf. You should not be able to keep up with nullsec, wh, or lowsec pilots financially without doing lots of market pvp. )
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#315 - 2012-06-24 17:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

If you ever wanna do stuff like research blueprints or manufacture anything or trade/market manipulate bulk goods its infinitely easier to do in highsec and then jump freighter the results or profits back to your null character. In terms of straight up resource gathering 0.0 is better obviously (except pre-Incursion nerf, where highsec was better at that too), assuming you're able to rat all day and never PVP or worry about defending your space.


Yeah bringing BPOs to null to research... great idea lol
Thats what high sec POSses are for

Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Increase the amount of low-sec, remove non-POS stations from High Sec (but make POS's easier to use in High Sec.)


Everyone who wants to do industry and the market without risk = nope.



(Not a serious idea, but High Sec DOES need a nerf. You should not be able to keep up with nullsec, wh, or lowsec pilots financially without doing lots of market pvp. )


lol remove non POS from high sec cause that would totally make it "high" sec area huh?
Yeah Im guessing youre in a griefer dec corp

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#316 - 2012-06-24 17:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryoken McKeon
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

If you ever wanna do stuff like research blueprints or manufacture anything or trade/market manipulate bulk goods its infinitely easier to do in highsec and then jump freighter the results or profits back to your null character. In terms of straight up resource gathering 0.0 is better obviously (except pre-Incursion nerf, where highsec was better at that too), assuming you're able to rat all day and never PVP or worry about defending your space.


Yeah bringing BPOs to null to research... great idea lol
Thats what high sec POSses are for

Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Increase the amount of low-sec, remove non-POS stations from High Sec (but make POS's easier to use in High Sec.)


Everyone who wants to do industry and the market without risk = nope.



(Not a serious idea, but High Sec DOES need a nerf. You should not be able to keep up with nullsec, wh, or lowsec pilots financially without doing lots of market pvp. )


lol remove non POS from high sec cause that would totally make it "high" sec area huh?
Yeah Im guessing youre in a griefer dec corp


((Not a serious idea, but High Sec DOES need a nerf. You should not be able to keep up with nullsec, wh, or lowsec pilots financially without doing lots of market pvp. )


Annnnnnnd, no. I live in whs. I think the risk vs. reward in high sec isn't fair. I also think people who spend most of their time pve'ing in high sec should find another game. I just don't see the appeal of farming useless AI or rocks all day....

I think that EVE is a pvp game at heart, and high sec, as is, really bastardizes the game. I would like to see low sec get a huge buff and high sec get a slight-med sized nerf so that more people have to actually play the game.

My reasoning is this: Until this year's hulkageddon, high sec carebears have never had to have a modicum of skill. It didn't matter if they afk mined or not. When you don't have to be any better at the game than a bot, you should find something else to do.
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2012-06-24 17:24:59 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I and everyone I know will do what Goons are doing: Go to MWO

Woo House Liao

Lowtax

Squaaaaaaak


I do believe that will be the best thing to ever happen to Eve.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2012-06-24 17:25:18 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Yeah bringing BPOs to null to research... great idea lol
Thats what high sec POSses are for

And inventing. And copying. And manufacturing everything except supercaps.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#319 - 2012-06-24 17:28:38 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I and everyone I know will do what Goons are doing: Go to MWO

Woo House Liao

Lowtax

Squaaaaaaak


I do believe that will be the best thing to ever happen to Eve.


AND to MWO. Even playing field ftw

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2012-06-24 17:43:37 UTC
High sec - bonility
"Other space" - peasants.

Only natural for said peasants to desire the riches of nobility.